Should women be allowed custody? [W:124]

ab9924 said:

Should women be allowed custody of their children after they cheat on their husband, resulting in a divorce, where the husband demands full custody?

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I find it odd that you restricted your poll to women only, and didn't use the word "parent" instead. May I presume that you do believe that cheating men should be allowed custody, regardless of their infidelity, and the "unfit cheating parent should lose custody" moniker belongs only on the mother?

Fisher said:

Custody Orders in my area almost always include a no unrelated overnight guest of the opposite sex while the children are in the house without the consent of the other parent provision that applies to both sides. That sort of negates the relevance of cheating going forward.

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That's not always strictly enforced as say, child support.

Aunt Spiker said:

No - violating your marital bonds isn't the same as violating your bond with your child.

And what is with this 2nd statement - "a child should not be assumed o receive an loyalty, support, and care from her, when examined in a court of law?"
Do you think that if he gets full custody she won't care for her child? Or do you think if she gets full custody she won't care for her child? What exactly are you getting at with this, here? Why are you solely focused on 'sole custody' - MOST divorces involving children that aren't done for excessive reasons (abuse, drug addiction, etc) - SHARE custody. Neither parent gets 'full' custody.

This is full custody here:


So - why is being a bad spouse SO BAD that you lose some of your parental rights? Lose the ability to make healthcare decisions for you child, education decisions and all that?

Cheating sucks - it's painful - but it's not the worst thing you can do.

Note where that quote says it's rarely granted and when it is it's done so because of convicted child abuse or endangerment.

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Okay, I agree with half of your points, but ... if I understand it right, a woman chooses to marry a guy of her choice, in order to have children which is also her choice. Then, she chooses to cheat on her marriage. Then we start calling it justice in a custodial court of law, when she says, that "I chose this one at that time, then I chose against the next time, but I will not choose otherwise again" ... your quote about the standing judicial practice may be a proof of horrible double standards in divorce proceedings. Why is it that some people can just go and say whatever changing stories to any judge and they still get the benefit of the doubt, in some blind push for parental equality?

tessaesque said:

The relationship you have with a romantic partner is dramatically different from the relationship you have with your child. They are two different people. There are too different dynamics. There are two different approaches required.

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I agree with this 100 %. Because you used the word "romantic" without the word "contractual".

I don't know, but I would imagine that romantism is only a part of the marriage, another part is your "contractual" obligations, which you can't back out of, because if you did, then you shouldn't have taken the romance as far as marriage. Right?

lizzie said:

There is a little bit of conflict in your op title and the poll question. As to the actual poll question, yes a woman should be able to contest for custody. Should she automatically get custody, because she is a woman? No.

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I agree that she should be able to contest custody. But her rights to do it should be reduced if she cheated in her marriage.

DiAnna said:

I find it odd that you restricted your poll to women only, and didn't use the word "parent" instead. May I presume that you do believe that cheating men should be allowed custody, regardless of their infidelity, and the "unfit cheating parent should lose custody" moniker belongs only on the mother?

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I think I made the wrong assumption, that if a man cheats on his wife, then he would be naturally less interested in equal custody. If this assumption doesn't hold, then let's replace the word "woman" with the word "parent".

ab9924 said:

I think I made the wrong assumption, that if a man cheats on his wife, then he would be naturally less interested in equal custody. If this assumption doesn't hold, then let's replace the word "woman" with the word "parent".

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Infidelity is caused by problems in the marriage and/or problems spouses have with each other. It has nothing to do with their love of their children, and their desire to be a good parent, and be prominant in their childrens' lives.

Other. Overall factors should be weighed in who is more fit to raise the child after divorce, everything should go into that from sobriety, to general attention to the child, stability, moral character. It all matters.

DiAnna said:

Infidelity is caused by problems in the marriage and/or problems spouses have with each other. It has nothing to do with their love of their children, and their desire to be a good parent, and be prominant in their childrens' lives.

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Interesting. So, can we separate a child's feelings from the parents' feelings? I would think that if a parent cheats, then the child feels cheated the same way as the other parent. A court that gives equal custody after that, does essentially an abuse on the child, by forcing the child to internalize cheating.

DiAnna said:

Infidelity is caused by problems in the marriage and/or problems spouses have with each other. It has nothing to do with their love of their children, and their desire to be a good parent, and be prominant in their childrens' lives.

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What about serial cheaters.
Not a one time fling, by accident or out of serious emotion, but someone who cheats on their partner multiple times.

Doesn't that seem to paint a picture of unstable behavior?

ab9924 said:

Interesting. So, can we separate a child's feelings from the parents' feelings? I would think that if a parent cheats, then the child feels cheated the same way as the other parent. A court that gives equal custody after that, does essentially an abuse on the child, by forcing the child to internalize cheating.

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This... makes no sense to me. I can understand a child being angry at the breakup of the family... most children of divorce are hurt, scared and angry. I can also understand the child "blaming" the parent he/she believes was the cause of the breakup. However, children do not have the maturity or capacity to understand the underlying dynamics of why a marriage has failed, and the failure of a marriage is not a failure of parenting. Children need and deserve a nurturing relationship with both parents, so joint custody is hardly "abuse"... and it certainly doesn't "force" the child to "internalize cheating". In fact, I don't even know what that means. It simply makes no sense.

ab9924 said:

Should women be allowed custody of their children after they cheat on their husband, resulting in a divorce, where the husband demands full custody?

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It is best, in a divorce, that the parents come to a mutually acceptible agreement, between themselves, regarding custody before they ever set foot in the courtroom.


Naturally, this is typically only going to happen if both parents are currently-rational adults operating in a responsible manner.

Failing that, the judge should consider the needs of the children as paramount, but both parents should have some say and reasonable access to the children, unless one (or more) are abusive or otherwise clearly dangerous.

Harry Guerrilla said:

What about serial cheaters.
Not a one time fling, by accident or out of serious emotion, but someone who cheats on their partner multiple times.

Doesn't that seem to paint a picture of unstable behavior?

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Then perhaps I should have said "Infidelity is caused by problems in the marriage and/or problems spouses have with each other, or with their own character issues."

My first ex cheated on me and is still with the man she left me for. She got custody of the kids. I was paying almost $1300/month in child support for 2 kids. I finally got it reduced to $772/month (after 3 years of paying the higher amount). Why I am the one being punished for a decision she decided to make? Another stab in the back is seeing my 12 year old daughter posting videos of herself on the internet on a site where several grown men (perverts) have added her as a friend and probably masturbate to her videos.

Unfortunately nothing can be done about this. So I pay, but I get no say. I hope she doesn't end up like the girl who committed suicide, but it looks like she is heading down that road. And I can't do a thing about it.

ab9924 said:

I agree that she should be able to contest custody. But her rights to do it should be reduced if she cheated in her marriage.

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Why? Being a less-than-stellar wife does not imply that she is not a good mother.

DiAnna said:

Then perhaps I should have said "Infidelity is caused by problems in the marriage and/or problems spouses have with each other, or with their own character issues."

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That's pretty accurate.
I ask this because I've been involved with a family members custody battle, they have a history of unstable behavior and the courts are still leaning towards giving them an equal, to full share of custody.
Some I protest heavily based on the character of said family member.

To me, serial cheating is a big character flaw, that should be seriously examined and added to the scale when judging custody.

Harry Guerrilla said:

That's pretty accurate.
I ask this because I've been involved with a family members custody battle, they have a history of unstable behavior and the courts are still leaning towards giving them an equal, to full share of custody.
Some I protest heavily based on the character of said family member.

To me, serial cheating is a big character flaw, that should be seriously examined and added to the scale when judging custody.

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I can understand why that would be someone's point of view, because my son's ex-wife cheated on him, and left him for another young man who did not stick around long once she was "free". That being said, she is a very good mother to my two grand-daughters, and they love her as children would naturally love their mother. Her character flaw didn't have anything to do with her mothering instincts and abilities with her children, but with having a stable loving relationship with a man who was unrelated to her. She and my son have shared equal-time custody, and neither of them has tried to fight over the girls, which imo, is a good thing.

lizzie said:

I can understand why that would be someone's point of view, because my son's ex-wife cheated on him, and left him for another young man who did not stick around long once she was "free". That being said, she is a very good mother to my two grand-daughters, and they love her as children would naturally love their mother. Her character flaw didn't have anything to do with her mothering instincts and abilities with her children, but with having a stable loving relationship with a man who was unrelated to her. She and my son have shared equal-time custody, and neither of them has tried to fight over the girls, which imo, is a good thing.

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In the situation I'm in, I'm siding with my ex brother in law's, soon to be ex wife (my niece's stepmother).
She has, for all intents and purposes, been the best parent for my niece.

Neither my sister or her ex husband is stable and competent enough to raise my niece.

lizzie said:

Why? Being a less-than-stellar wife does not imply that she is not a good mother.

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The two are not always linked, this is true.... but from my experience it is not uncommon that the same character flaws of the spouse are also character flaws in his/her parenting.

Green Balls said:

My first ex cheated on me and is still with the man she left me for. She got custody of the kids. I was paying almost $1300/month in child support for 2 kids. I finally got it reduced to $772/month (after 3 years of paying the higher amount). Why I am the one being punished for a decision she decided to make? Another stab in the back is seeing my 12 year old daughter posting videos of herself on the internet on a site where several grown men (perverts) have added her as a friend and probably masturbate to her videos.

Unfortunately nothing can be done about this. So I pay, but I get no say. I hope she doesn't end up like the girl who committed suicide, but it looks like she is heading down that road. And I can't do a thing about it.

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This is EXACTLY the kind of reality why I opened this thread.

DiAnna said:

This... makes no sense to me. I can understand a child being angry at the breakup of the family... most children of divorce are hurt, scared and angry. I can also understand the child "blaming" the parent he/she believes was the cause of the breakup. However, children do not have the maturity or capacity to understand the underlying dynamics of why a marriage has failed, and the failure of a marriage is not a failure of parenting. Children need and deserve a nurturing relationship with both parents, so joint custody is hardly "abuse"... and it certainly doesn't "force" the child to "internalize cheating". In fact, I don't even know what that means. It simply makes no sense.

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By internalizing cheating I meant that the child is smart enough to see that one of the parents cheated, and when staying with the cheating parent, the child learns that cheating is okay or even a good thing. When something hurts you for a long time, it becomes a part of you and you become it, and then you will do the same thing as what hurt you initially. This is how people learn to do every bad thing, especially when a custody court orders them into that situation.

When it comes to kids women typically know better than men. Unless the woman is an addict or horrible mom no.

ab9924 said:

Interesting. So, can we separate a child's feelings from the parents' feelings? I would think that if a parent cheats, then the child feels cheated the same way as the other parent. A court that gives equal custody after that, does essentially an abuse on the child, by forcing the child to internalize cheating.

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Why are you presuming that a child even knows that 'mommy was with someone else' . . . or 'daddy was with someone else'

We're talking about 'children' - which can range from infants to teens. What age group are you thinking of. If I was in that situation and my husband cheated on me and that's part of the reason why we ended up divorcing I sure as hell wouldn't BRING them into all of that stuff. They don't need to know that unless they're *much older* and can somewhat understand or better deal with adult-topics.

Like - I left my ex because he was a horrific abuser. I've never told the kids that. They know I was married before and we didn't get along and such - but you don't tell a 5 year old that kind of stuff - you wait until they're older and can handle it.

If the offended parent (the one who was cheated on) can't keep it to their selves I think that can cause even more problems for the child on top of problems - almost like those parents who somehow turn their kids against the other parent because they're openly negating the other parent and putting them down all the time . . . again - using kids as weapons to hurt the other.

ab9924 said:

This is EXACTLY the reality why I opened this thread.

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Well what you're suggesting is to do the exact OPPOSITE of what he's going through. He feels he's being punished - but instead of wanting balance and a median you want her to be punished . . . that just makes no sense. It was wrong of him to be denied but it would be wrong to take the child away from her, too.

Now - I don't know anything about his situation other than what he's posted - but to me it seems like what should have happened but didn't was SHARED custody - both having a say, both still parenting - both still involved in the child's life - both making a strong effort to meet in the middle and still be parents. That choice wasn't given. His case is the exact reason why it shouldn't be 'granted full custody one or the other' - because then when/if problems come up the OTHER can't do anything but sit back and watch their precious child fall apart.

How is that just?

I oppose your concept. I think full custody when it's not called for creates MORE problems that it solves (his case is an example of it)

Children are NOT weapons - they should NEVER be used to deny, deprive or punish the other. That's the thought process that was going on in that one guys head when he flew his daughter into the side of a building and murdered her - to 'get back at my wife because she hurt me'

Honestly - it's twisted and ****ed up to WANT that to be the situation.

I'd prefer people mediate everything and beat up a punching bag if they have to in order to share parenting.

ab9924 said:

But isn't it logical that it is hell of a good indication that she would rather be the "aunt" than the mother?

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Heavens - just delete that. I'm hoping your being facetious.

Because a mother never stops being a mother . . . you never become your child's figurative aunt unless your entire family has some seriously ****ed up issues . .. my ex husband's family had some seriously ****ed up issues - he found out when he was 22 that his uncle was actually his biological father.

That's how a parent becomes a aunt/uncle - and that is the single most ****ed up thing to ever do.

Now - you can become a ****ty mother . . . a horrid mother - but you're never *not* the mother.

Cheating means you wanted something from someone else - it's not like she or he took on other people's children and pretended they didn't have any or something. As we've said - usually cheating goes along with other issues in the marriage . . . or maybe emotional problems that one is dealing with. Not excusing it - just explaining that it's not all because you suddenly don't want to be a mother anymore.

Aunt Spiker said:

Why are you presuming that a child even knows that 'mommy was with someone else' . . . or 'daddy was with someone else'

We're talking about 'children' - which can range from infants to teens. What age group are you thinking of. If I was in that situation and my husband cheated on me and that's part of the reason why we ended up divorcing I sure as hell wouldn't BRING them into all of that stuff. They don't need to know that unless they're *much older* and can somewhat understand or better deal with adult-topics.



Well what you're suggesting is to do the exact OPPOSITE of what he's going through. He feels he's being punished - but instead of wanting balance and a median you want her to be punished . . . that just makes no sense. It was wrong of him to be denied but it would be wrong to take the child away from her, too.

Now - I don't know anything about his situation other than what he's posted - but to me it seems like what should have happened but didn't was SHARED custody - both having a say, both still parenting - both still involved in the child's life - both making a strong effort to meet in the middle and still be parents. That choice wasn't given. His case is the exact reason why it shouldn't be 'granted full custody one or the other' - because then when/if problems come up the OTHER can't do anything but sit back and watch their precious child fall apart.

How is that just?

I oppose your concept. I think full custody when it's not called for creates MORE problems that it solves (his case is an example of it)

Children are NOT weapons - they should NEVER be used to deny, deprive or punish the other. That's the thought process that was going on in that one guys head when he flew his daughter into the side of a building and murdered her - to 'get back at my wife because she hurt me'

Honestly - it's twisted and ****ed up to WANT that to be the situation.

I'd prefer people mediate everything and beat up a punching bag if they have to in order to share parenting.

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Your position is reasonable. But I still must ask, because the question begs for itself. Why do we rubber-stamp the destruction of a child's home by ignoring cheating as a cause? Also I was not arguing for full custody, I was arguing for a biassed joint custody as opposed to equal custody. Shouldn't cheating be punished when it destroys a child's home? Shouldn't be consequences to abandoning a jointly agreed marriage in the face of its dependents? Even your cell-phone contract may infer termination penalties, is a marriage not worth even that?

Also, the volatile job market makes most joint custodies impossible in the 21st century.