View Poll Results: Shouldn't we embrace Obama's fiscal cliff?

Voters
14. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, it is more revenue, less spending, so long Bush, hello Obama.

    4 28.57%
  • Yes, we need to take our medicine, only when it really hurts can we start to recover

    4 28.57%
  • No! We can't recover without economic growth.

    5 35.71%
  • I got an Obama phone! This is all Bush's and Congress's fault anyway.

    1 7.14%
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Thread: Embrace the Fiscal Cliff?

  1. #21
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    Re: Embrace the Fiscal Cliff?

    Quote Originally Posted by friday View Post
    "nothing will help more than spending"

    That was the Obama doctrine for the last four years. That's why he spent a trillion dollars on failed stimulus programs. We don't need government funded consumerism, we need actual, sustainable growth. You don't get that with shock spending cuts and tax increases on small businesses.
    Oh but you see, if you use spending programs during bad times and then you cut spending during full employment to deal with the debt everything will work out just fine. No amount of fairy dust involved either.

  2. #22
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    Re: Embrace the Fiscal Cliff?

    Quote Originally Posted by friday View Post
    "nothing will help more than spending"

    That was the Obama doctrine for the last four years. That's why he spent a trillion dollars on failed stimulus programs. We don't need government funded consumerism, we need actual, sustainable growth. You don't get that with shock spending cuts and tax increases on small businesses.
    NO, not really. It is true, that the short term effort rerquired more spending. This isn't new or anything that was done by presidents before him in the past. I remember years ago when we talked on these forms about hsi short term plan and long term plan. He need both and at one time articulated both.

    And on the whole, small businesses are a protected group, even under Obama. So, we should tone down the exaggerations.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  3. #23
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    Re: Embrace the Fiscal Cliff?

    I've a counter-proposal: Let's just let the old people die.

    1. Cliff
    2. Old people gotta go.

    Nice options.

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    Re: Embrace the Fiscal Cliff?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    That impending "cliff" is a real test of whether the Republicans and Democrats can actually work together or not. If they can't even come up with a reasonable action in the face of impending disaster, then the federal government is so dysfunctional that the only solution is to toss out every incumbent and start over.
    Quite so. Partisan ideology needs to be tempered, and doing the people's work encouraged.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  5. #25
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    Re: Embrace the Fiscal Cliff?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I've a counter-proposal: Let's just let the old people die.

    1. Cliff
    2. Old people gotta go.

    Nice options.
    I love the smell of sarcasim early in the morning.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #26
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    Re: Embrace the Fiscal Cliff?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    NO, not really. It is true, that the short term effort rerquired more spending. This isn't new or anything that was done by presidents before him in the past. I remember years ago when we talked on these forms about hsi short term plan and long term plan. He need both and at one time articulated both.
    As I said, no amount of fairy dust at all in that plan.

    And on the whole, small businesses are a protected group, even under Obama. So, we should tone down the exaggerations.
    So what you are saying is millions of small businesses won't be facing tax increases under his plan?

  7. #27
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    Re: Embrace the Fiscal Cliff?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    As I said, no amount of fairy dust at all in that plan.
    I think you're trying to side step discussion here.

    So what you are saying is millions of small businesses won't be facing tax increases under his plan?
    This report notes that the definition of small-business owners that Republicans have often used in the past is “overly broad,” which puts it mildly. That definition counts as a small-business owner anyone who reported any “flow-through” business income on his or her personal tax return. So it takes in owners of large firms as well as small, and also people whose business income is negligible and who earn their living primarily from other means.

    For example, a partner in a Wall Street hedge fund would be classified as a “small”-business owner even if he or she raked in $100 million from trading securities. And a corporate executive making $1 million in salary and bonuses would be counted as a “small-business owner” if he or she also received a few dollars from the incidental rental of a ski condo or beach house.

    FactCheck.org : Boehner’s Big Stretch on Small Business

    Barack Obama said he's cut taxes for 'middle-class families, small businesses'

    Embrace the Fiscal Cliff?-rulings_tom-mostlytrue-gif


    Obama has raised some taxes during his presidency, but he’s also pursued broad-based tax cuts for the middle class and small businesses. We particularly give weight here to the tax cuts that were part of the stimulus and the payroll tax holiday, which reduced taxes for broad swaths of the workforce. Some small businesses may have been hit by new taxes that were part of Obama’s health law, but these would depend on the particular circumstances of each business. Also, there were new taxes on cigarettes and indoor tanning.

    PolitiFact | Barack Obama said he's cut taxes for 'middle-class families, small businesses'

    I prefer to try and be factually accurate. Republicans spreading the huge taxes on small business are largely using a questionable definition of small. Fact check address that. And mostly, they've gotten cuts. Politifact addresses that.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  8. #28
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    Re: Embrace the Fiscal Cliff?

    Quote Originally Posted by friday View Post
    The Fiscal Cliff happens on January 1, 2013. It is when the policies of the Bush administration expire and the policies of the Obama administration become more fully implemented. It is also when the Obama sequestration compromise goes into effect. It is a balanced approach of tax hikes and spending cuts.

    So shouldn't we embrace it? Didn't we embrace it on November 6th? End of Bush era policies, implementation of Obama era policies, tax hikes and spending cuts, especially on the military. Isn't that exactly what Obama ran on? So why are we afraid of it?

    It could be because nearly every reputable economist is predicting that it would cause another recession and shoot unemployment back up over 9%. So is that what "Forward" really gets us?

    The Fiscal Cliff is Obama's policy in action. Shouldn't we embrace it?
    It appears to be what the American people voted for. They are sovereign.

  9. #29
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    Re: Embrace the Fiscal Cliff?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The idea was not for that to take place, and if it does, it won't be anyone's idea of what was desired. not Obama's or republican's. The idea was to try and encourage them to actually do something. If we fall off the cliff, congress failed.
    Thank you and I agree.
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

    "There are those who will debate the necessity of wilderness, I will not, either you know it in your bones or you are very very old". Aldo Leopold - Sand County Almanac

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    Re: Embrace the Fiscal Cliff?

    Quote Originally Posted by friday View Post
    And yet, here we are. The compromise was "let's shoot ourselves in the foot, and if we don't heal by January, 2013 we'll shoot ourselves in the head too." And blame Congress all you want, Obama signed it.
    Bills don't suddenly appear. CONGRESS PASSES THEM and then they are signed or vetoed. everybody is guilty;.
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

    "There are those who will debate the necessity of wilderness, I will not, either you know it in your bones or you are very very old". Aldo Leopold - Sand County Almanac

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