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Immigration reform

What changes should be done to our immigration policy

  • Leave it as it is-some quotas based on countries of origin

    Votes: 4 9.5%

  • do not change the laws but enforce them better

    Votes: 9 21.4%

  • Restrict immigration to those with needed skills

    Votes: 14 33.3%

  • restrict immigration to those able to provide for themselves

    Votes: 10 23.8%

  • Have a complete moratorium on immigration for a period of years

    Votes: 6 14.3%

  • Other

    Votes: 16 38.1%
  • Total voters
    42
TurtleDude said:
you should pay a wage sufficient to obtain the quantity and quality of labor you need. what is a living wage? some artificial bit of crap that the left howls for that puts american companies at a competitive disadvantage
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You conveniently omit the Capitaliban's whining about making a living profit sufficient to feed their degenerate and insatiable way of living. Their corrupt and treasonous greed also drives them to make trade deals that give the leaders of countries hosting their sweatshop outsourcing a guaranteed number of immigration permits to our country, if you want to call it ours when you obviously think that the majority of Americans are lazy and overpaid and not your fellow Americans.
 
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PrometheusBound said:
You conveniently omit the Capitaliban's whining about making a living profit sufficient to feed their degenerate and insatiable way of living. Their corrupt and treasonous greed also drives them to make trade deals that give the leaders of countries hosting their sweatshop outsourcing a guaranteed number of immigration permits to our country, if you want to call it ours when you obviously think that the majority of Americans are lazy and overpaid and not your fellow Americans.
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This sounds like stuff for the conspiracy theory section
 
dyanaprajna2011 said:
It's funny to me that Hispanics are credited with giving President Obama his victory. Something I find even more interesting is the fact that, most Hispanics are Catholic, which is traditionally conservative, yet these immigrants voted not with their religion, but with their immediate world view. They're not worried about homosexual marriage or abortion, they're more worried about how they're going to survive. They're more worried about the needful things in life: food, shelter, medicine. But I seriously doubt there was enough Hispanic immigrants voting Democrat to give Obama an overarching victory over Romney. Personally, I think that's due more to the fact that America is starting to be more progressive overall, and the traditional conservative views are losing ground. But that's another story. Just remember this: if you're not Native American, you're an immigrant too. :)
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And what did the "Native" Americans call this country we supposedly invaded? It was never a country, just an up-for-grads unowned territory occupied by Stone Age fugitives from evolution. All the tribes stole their land from previous tribes. They came in three waves. The first wave was driven into South America by the second wave, which was driven out by the third wave. The Whites were merely the Fourth Wave. If you want to find "native" Americans, defined as the first hominids here, you'd have to go to the Amazon jungle.

Now of course, traitors have made us a colony of the UN. If we welcome this Fifth Wave without a fight, we deserve to become obsolete in our own country.
 
PrometheusBound said:
What's wrong with that? Multiculties and imported citizens support this betrayal because they think they are the right people voting the right way, etc.
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What is wrong with that is that the poster is using a blatant political standard of what it good for themselves as supposed ethical underpinnings to attack other political positions taken by others.
 
TurtleDude said:
This sounds like stuff for the conspiracy theory section
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Lawyers have a whole bag of rhetorical tricks. Calling any revelation about the treason of your Golden Calf idols a "conspiracy theory" is just a way to avoid discussion about the plutocratic parasitic pirates' schemes to pile up wealth.
 
PrometheusBound said:
Lawyers have a whole bag of rhetorical tricks. Calling any revelation about the treason of your Golden Calf idols a "conspiracy theory" is just a way to avoid discussion about the plutocratic parasitic pirates' schemes to pile up wealth.
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I try to deal with reality rather than something that sounds like a chapter from Fear and Loathing in the Outer Rim of Orion
 
Wake said:
It makes no sense why America will not enforce its immigration laws. Is it illogical to think that, if there were terrorists who wished to enter this country, they could enter through America's southern border? The way these illegal aliens have entered America is an insult to not only those American citizens who waited to enter our nation legally, but those would-be citizens who are still waiting in line.
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Just so you know, the overwhelming majority of terrorists in the US have either been born here, or gotten into the country with valid passports. But don't let that stop your detachment from reality.
 
PrometheusBound said:
And what did the "Native" Americans call this country we supposedly invaded? It was never a country, just an up-for-grads unowned territory occupied by Stone Age fugitives from evolution. All the tribes stole their land from previous tribes. They came in three waves. The first wave was driven into South America by the second wave, which was driven out by the third wave. The Whites were merely the Fourth Wave. If you want to find "native" Americans, defined as the first hominids here, you'd have to go to the Amazon jungle.

Now of course, traitors have made us a colony of the UN. If we welcome this Fifth Wave without a fight, we deserve to become obsolete in our own country.
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So, what? You're saying that since the Natives had no centralized form of government, no real synergy between the various tribes, that Europeans had a right to come in and just take the land? This reminds me of an Eddie Izzard joke. And no, the tribes did not take their land from other tribes, at least not on a large scale. Most were happy to live in their little neck of the woods, and leave the others alone. Is you're "wave theory" part of historical fact? It's something I'm not aware of, but this seems wrong in light of the fact that the Inuit have lived in Canada for thousands of years, and have never been driven anywhere. But I'm uncomfortable with the whole idea that overpowering another group and grabbing their land is ok. This weird conservative idea only works here, but they won't apply that same logic to the Middle East, unless, of course, it's us going in and taking land, which thankfully hasn't been done, yet. The whole idea of 'manifest destiny' seems like a load in my book. What's wrong with everyone just staying where they are? My ancestors in this nation came here from Ireland, and I would have been just as happy if they had stayed there, potato famine and all. The idea of "grab all the land you can if you have the power to do so", is just another way to find a new group of people to repress.
 
PrometheusBound said:
Then how come their own countries are ratholes? They will only bring that rat culture here, growing more and more as the multicultie traitors hand over more of our power to them. An analysis that doesn't start with a false conclusion will reveal that they can't blame their oppressive ruling classes; the common people are just as corrupt and dysfunctional. They have had plenty of revolutions, which always wind up solving nothing, because the people themselves are that way and not victims who will behave right when set free. Don't be misled by how the timid first generation here acts; their descendants will bring us nothing but rats.
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This would be far more convincing if what you said had any basis in fact instead of xenophobic bias. Immigrants who are willing to cut ties with their home country and come here tend to be more intelligent, harder working, less likely to commit crime, and less likely to use welfare than the average native citizen. Immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than natives. Their kids are more likely to break their law, but by the third or fourth generation crime rates are indistinguishable. If welfare consumption is an issue, why not restrict immigrants' use of welfare. Most states do not allow immigrants to obtain welfare for their first five years here. These people do not come out of "rat" cultures. They come from places lacking economic opportunity. The reasons for this lack of opportunity varies, but whatever it is, it does not prevent Immigrants from assimilating.

http://www.cato.org/pubs/irb/irb_august2010.pdf

http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/sites/default/files/docs/Imm Criminality (IPC).pdf
 
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dyanaprajna2011 said:
So, what? You're saying that since the Natives had no centralized form of government, no real synergy between the various tribes, that Europeans had a right to come in and just take the land? This reminds me of an Eddie Izzard joke. And no, the tribes did not take their land from other tribes, at least not on a large scale. Most were happy to live in their little neck of the woods, and leave the others alone. Is you're "wave theory" part of historical fact? It's something I'm not aware of, but this seems wrong in light of the fact that the Inuit have lived in Canada for thousands of years, and have never been driven anywhere. But I'm uncomfortable with the whole idea that overpowering another group and grabbing their land is ok. This weird conservative idea only works here, but they won't apply that same logic to the Middle East, unless, of course, it's us going in and taking land, which thankfully hasn't been done, yet. The whole idea of 'manifest destiny' seems like a load in my book. What's wrong with everyone just staying where they are? My ancestors in this nation came here from Ireland, and I would have been just as happy if they had stayed there, potato famine and all. The idea of "grab all the land you can if you have the power to do so", is just another way to find a new group of people to repress.
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Rather than refute your Pocahontas fantasy, experience here makes it seem better to just rest my case and you can rest yours. We'll just let the other debaters decide whether they want to believe what they have been told by the intellectual and moral authorities or listen to independent thought on history and ethics.
 
haymarket said:
What is wrong with that is that the poster is using a blatant political standard of what it good for themselves as supposed ethical underpinnings to attack other political positions taken by others.
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It is just as ethical to stick up for yourself as it is to help defend others. Don't be inhibited by thinking that what is good for you can't be good for anyone else and therefore hurting yourself while helping others is more ethical. Objectivity does not mean applying a standard that dismisses any claim in your own self-interest as unfair bias. Objectivity is deficient if it doesn't include yourself in with "the others." The usual misleading definition of your gurus is unethically biased in favor of outsiders. So just because multiculties are for the others and hate their own doesn't make them morally superior for their supposed self-sacrifice. The truth is that they don't feel guilty, they only want to make the rest of us feel guilty and pay for that assigned guilt.
 
MaggieD said:
Even if it's all true, I don't see what difference it makes as to what our policy should be on immigration.

This is no different than believing that many in poor communities believe that voting for Obama will get them more welfare. And if we're stupid enough to give welfare to illegal immigrants? We deserve exactly what we get.
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It's not "we". It's a corrupt party that then uses them for vote farming.



And the two subjects are actually connected - the question is, if we import a large populace that would be dependent on the government, can we really be surprised that our government will quickly become an even more morbid, expensive, and unsustainable welfare state?
 
cpwill said:
It's not "we". It's a corrupt party that then uses them for vote farming.
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Like the Republicans coming up with boogyman non-issues such as homosexual marriage and abortion in order to gain the Christian vote, the largest religion in the US. Originally, fundamentalist Christianity was against getting involved in politics. But this all changed in the 80's with Jerry Falwell and his Moral Majority. Since then, Christians have been duped into thinking that the Republican party is God's party, and that they represent Christianity, which, if anyone here has read the Bible, couldn't be farther from the truth.
 
dyanaprajna2011 said:
Like the Republicans coming up with boogyman non-issues such as homosexual marriage and abortion in order to gain the Christian vote, the largest religion in the US.
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these are not non-issues. And it is liberals who made them into issues.

Since then, Christians have been duped into thinking that the Republican party is God's party, and that they represent Christianity, which, if anyone here has read the Bible, couldn't be farther from the truth.
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Well I tend to avoid absolutist statements like that, but agreed, the Republican party is not the avatar of Christianity in America. Sadly, neither are some of our churches.
 
How many people in this country immigrated from Eastern European ratholes? Even Western European ratholes? This country wasn't founded by the cream of the crop.

It says right on the statue of liberty - “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.”

And what is wrong with multiculturalism? America is multicultural by definition. We're a nation of immigrants.

PrometheusBound said:
Then how come their own countries are ratholes? They will only bring that rat culture here, growing more and more as the multicultie traitors hand over more of our power to them. An analysis that doesn't start with a false conclusion will reveal that they can't blame their oppressive ruling classes; the common people are just as corrupt and dysfunctional. They have had plenty of revolutions, which always wind up solving nothing, because the people themselves are that way and not victims who will behave right when set free. Don't be misled by how the timid first generation here acts; their descendants will bring us nothing but rats.
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TurtleDude said:
New Zealand-from what I have been told, won't let you in if you cannot prove you will be a net tax payer
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This is true. We also wont let people in past a certain age unless they can prove they have 1 million dollars in the bank. Our borders are easier to control as well. You have to meet certain criteria just to be considered for immigration here.
 
We need a combination of some of those. We need to become much stricter and have a stronger enforcement of our current (or future) system. Another thing is that it needs to become much simpler.
 
roflpublican said:
i'd prefer we test their intelligence/work ethic in some way too =/.
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I would prefer means testing. Just because they are intelligent does not mean they can pay for themselves.
 
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