• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Immigration reform

What changes should be done to our immigration policy

  • Leave it as it is-some quotas based on countries of origin

    Votes: 4 9.5%

  • do not change the laws but enforce them better

    Votes: 9 21.4%

  • Restrict immigration to those with needed skills

    Votes: 14 33.3%

  • restrict immigration to those able to provide for themselves

    Votes: 10 23.8%

  • Have a complete moratorium on immigration for a period of years

    Votes: 6 14.3%

  • Other

    Votes: 16 38.1%
  • Total voters
    42
MaggieD said:
And you can pay for it.
Click to expand...

Having educated people more than pays for itself.

Wait! Are you one of the 47% who pay no taxes??
Click to expand...

Not that it's any of your business, but I earn about $100,000 a year. Which, incidentally, still makes me a net tax consumer although I do earn enough to pay income taxes. See, that's what having a good education system can do. :2wave:
 
Why don't we have "Ellis Island" like immigration centers at the border of the US and Mexico like we did with all those European immigrants? Gives us a chance to screen for various health risks, hand out some basic information, and process those who are coming here to live the American dream? Then we hammer the **** out of illegals who obviously are skirting a generous immigration system.
 
Kandahar said:
Having educated people more than pays for itself.

Not that it's any of your business, but I earn about $100,000 a year. Which, incidentally, still makes me a net tax consumer although I do earn enough to pay income taxes. See, that's what having a good education system can do. :2wave:
Click to expand...

I have no desire to pay income taxes so that immigrants can come to this country and get free educations. You want to? I hope you have that opportunity. I hope your children have that opportunity. And, perhaps, they'll even get through college without student loans. What a wonderful gift to give total strangers.

Give me a break.
 
MaggieD said:
I have no desire to pay income taxes so that immigrants can come to this country and get free educations. You want to? I hope you have that opportunity.
Click to expand...

And I hope that I have the opportunity to elect representatives who will make you do it too.

What a wonderful gift to give total strangers.
Click to expand...

These "total strangers" are potential American citizens, as a very high percentage of US-educated foreigners would like to stay here if they could. And since our economy NEEDS highly-educated people to fill high-skilled jobs more than ever, we should be welcoming them with open arms. That "wonderful gift" is actually a very good investment in America's future. There are only so many native-born smart people...and that number is simply not enough to match the shortfall of high-skilled jobs our economy requires.

Give me a break.
Click to expand...

Fortunately, economic necessity will ultimately win out over your short-sighted xenophobia and selfishness. Maybe not every single election, but in the long term.
 
Kandahar said:
And I hope that I have the opportunity to elect representatives who will make you do it too.

These "total strangers" are potential American citizens, as a very high percentage of US-educated foreigners would like to stay here if they could. And since our economy NEEDS highly-educated people to fill high-skilled jobs more than ever, we should be welcoming them with open arms. That "wonderful gift" is actually a very good investment in America's future. There are only so many native-born smart people...and that number is simply not enough to match the shortfall of high-skilled jobs our economy requires.

Fortunately, economic necessity will ultimately win out over your short-sighted xenophobia and selfishness. Maybe not every single election, but in the long term.
Click to expand...

I am not xenophobic.

I, unlike you, would like to see our own American citizens getting those jobs. I'd like to see our citizens graduating without $50K in student loans. Without having to mortgage their futures in order to do so. We don't have to import smarts. We've got plenty of smarts right here.

Going to waste. Our failing education system in inner cities is wasting entire generations of young minds. While you would import talent? I say we have plenty of it right here.
 
TurtleDude said:
IT is now well known that hispanic immigrants who came here legally or illegally and then gained citizenship were a major reason for Obama winning Florida, Virginia Colorado and perhaps some other states. Several discussions I heard today noted that the welfare promises of the DNC rather than amnesty were the main reason why more than 2/3s of these hispanic immigrants voted for Obama. 75% of them are not well educated or have a skilled trade.
Based on those assumptions, what should be done with our immigration policies
Click to expand...

Our immigration laws and how we deal with illegals should have nothing to do with who anyone votes for. We should restrict immigration to those who can support themselves and those with needed skills because we can't be supporting everyone who comes across the border, not because they might vote democrat or some other party.
 
MaggieD said:
Even if it's all true, I don't see what difference it makes as to what our policy should be on immigration.

This is no different than believing that many in poor communities believe that voting for Obama will get them more welfare. And if we're stupid enough to give welfare to illegal immigrants? We deserve exactly what we get.
Click to expand...

Where have you been?
 
OnWisconsin said:
refresh.. I posted the wrong link..

The new link talks about how there is 11,000 jobs that need to be filled in the absence of Georgia's new immigration law. These positions they suggest filling with people currently serving time in jail, mainly because no one else will do the work.

Farmers do not have profit margins like big business. They can't afford to pay people high wages to pick produce from crops. Therefor its a symbiotic relationship between farmers and immigrants. Always has been.
Click to expand...


The farmers should raise the wages to attract workers, not piss bitch and moan that they can't hire illegals. Back breaking labor in the hot sun from sun up to sun down out in the country requires more than what you can get away with paying a cashier at walmart or a burger flipper at a McDonalds.These conditions should be taken into consideration.
 
Last edited:
MaggieD said:
I am not xenophobic.

I, unlike you, would like to see our own American citizens getting those jobs.
Click to expand...

There is not a fixed number of jobs in the economy. Every additional educated worker is a net POSITIVE for jobs.

I'd like to see our citizens graduating without $50K in student loans.
Click to expand...

Having $50K in student loans has little to do with what I am proposing, so that's a red herring.

Without having to mortgage their futures in order to do so. We don't have to import smarts. We've got plenty of smarts right here.
Click to expand...

That's a feel-good platitude, but it has little resemblance to the facts.

Humdrum and High-Skilled Jobs Are Going Unfilled - NYTimes.com
Report: Health-worker shortage could hit 250,000 by 2020 | cleveland.com
Shortage of Educated Workers Boosts U.S. Joblessness - Bloomberg

Going to waste. Our failing education system in inner cities is wasting entire generations of young minds. While you would import talent?
Click to expand...

You act as though fixing inner-city schools and bringing in high-skilled workers are mutually exclusive propositions. They are not.

I say we have plenty of it right here.
Click to expand...

You can say it all you like, but the facts are simply not on your side.
 
In retrospect it seems Bush Jr. demonstrated some foresight by simply hinting at the possibility of immigration reform (notice the term reform and not ouright amnesty, despite what some may insist), given the trends established in the last three election cycles.
 
jamesrage said:
The farmers should raise the wages to attract workers, not piss bitch and moan that they can't hire illegals. Back breaking labor in the hot sun from sun up to sun down out in the country requires more than what you can get away with paying a cashier at walmart or a burger flipper at a McDonalds.These conditions should be taken into consideration.
Click to expand...

How much money do you think the average farmer makes? Not these big corporate farms but the average family owned farm... You think they can afford to pay people more money?
 
OnWisconsin said:
How much money do you think the average farmer makes? Not these big corporate farms but the average family owned farm... You think they can afford to pay people more money?
Click to expand...


If they can't afford legal employees then they shouldn't be in business in the first place.
 
jamesrage said:
Our immigration laws and how we deal with illegals should have nothing to do with who anyone votes for. We should restrict immigration to those who can support themselves and those with needed skills because we can't be supporting everyone who comes across the border, not because they might vote democrat or some other party.
Click to expand...


good point-but the fact is, those who come here desiring welfare tend to vote at extremely high percentages for one party-the Dems. and they tend to perpetuate the welfare state and expand it
 
OnWisconsin said:
How much money do you think the average farmer makes? Not these big corporate farms but the average family owned farm... You think they can afford to pay people more money?
Click to expand...


well the beloved dem estate taxes are a great boon to the big corporate farms
 
TurtleDude said:
well the beloved dem estate taxes are a great boon to the big corporate farms
Click to expand...

I don't think you want me to get into a debate with you about who supports big corporate farms with subsidies.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Reform it. Make it easier to become citizen. Make it easier to get a work visa. Make the path to citizenship a lot more simpler and easier.
Click to expand...

Specifically what concrete changes would you make? The path to citizenship is not that complicated when one follows the rules from the beginning. What rules would you change?
 
OnWisconsin said:
I don't think you want me to get into a debate with you about who supports big corporate farms with subsidies.
Click to expand...

we do that so they throw away excess crops, and prevent their flooding the market and driving prices down to the point where smaller farmers could not make a living.
 
I have mixed views on this issue.

1. Illegals are illegal and need to be sent back if found.
2. The children of illegals born in this country should be given a fast track to citizenship and maybe their parents too.
3. If there are any illegals in the military leave them there and when they get out let them become citizens.

However I think expending extra resources or making up new laws for a "problem" that does not exist is wasteful. if we catch them we catch them. But they still need to go through the process one way or the other.
 
OnWisconsin said:
I don't think you want me to get into a debate with you about who supports big corporate farms with subsidies.
Click to expand...

no but we do know who wants big estate taxes which can cause farmers whose land has become valuable to sell to big corporate farms to pay the taxes
 
wolfman24 said:
I have mixed views on this issue.

1. Illegals are illegal and need to be sent back if found.
2. The children of illegals born in this country should be given a fast track to citizenship and maybe their parents too.
3. If there are any illegals in the military leave them there and when they get out let them become citizens.

However I think expending extra resources or making up new laws for a "problem" that does not exist is wasteful. if we catch them we catch them. But they still need to go through the process one way or the other.
Click to expand...

people who come here to deliver "anchor babies" should be sent home with the kid. the child should not get citizenship based on the subterfuge of the parents
 
We have sufficient laws on the books, but lack the will to enforce them. Until we show the will to enforce those laws, there's no need to do anything else.
 
Wake said:
Crime should not be rewarded. Other people wait in line to enter our country legally, so why should everyone else bend over backwards to cater to those who break into our nation? It's rather telling how wrong the progressives/liberals are in their thinking when you consider, iirc, that Mexico has stricter immigration laws.
Click to expand...

New Zealand-from what I have been told, won't let you in if you cannot prove you will be a net tax payer
 
jamesrage said:
If they can't afford legal employees then they shouldn't be in business in the first place.
Click to expand...

I thought restricting illegal immigration was about supporting jobs. :roll:
 
OnWisconsin said:
Farmers could pay $15 n hour and people still wouldn't do the work. Working in a tobacco field is hard ass work. I'm sure bending over all day in hot dirty conditions picking onions is not easy either. The point isn't the pay so much as the actual work that is being done.
Click to expand...

I've pulled tobacco. Fun stuff. Throw away your clothes at the end of the split-shift day. Paid well though. It was a way to make some decent scratch when I was too young to legally work. I wouldn't do it 7 days a week though.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom