• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Immigration reform

What changes should be done to our immigration policy


  • Total voters
    42
I am not grateful if they are using the safety net. if they are working hard and paying their way that is different. and I don't blame just the democrats who want more votes for allowing this mess. plenty of GOP business owners like illegals or legal unskilled labor to help suppress wages

http://www.newsmax.com/US/Georgia-Immigration/2011/06/23/id/401166

tell me what you think of this?

Apparently the only people who are willing to do this work for this little pay is unskilled immigrants be they legal or otherwise. Just want your take on this situation.
 
http://www.politifact.com/georgia/s...ation-bill-cost-georgia-farmers-close-400-mi/

tell me what you think of this?

Apparently the only people who are willing to do this work for this little pay is unskilled immigrants be they legal or otherwise. Just want your take on this situation.

you actually make an excellent point to be more restrictive - at least as far as minimum qualifications - in order to be eligible for immigration status
this nation is filled with underskilled people looking for work
if they were not competing against illegals for those menial labor positions, they could earn a living wage
 
I believe Turtle is right on this. Hispanics broke for Pres Obama in droves during this election. Just because someone is a legal citizen doesn't mean they A) Dont' have an illegal relative(s) B) Don't know an illegal immigrant C) Weren't an illegal themselves at some point D) Simply see Gov Romney's self deportation statement as general discrimination or lack of concern for hispanics. Further evidence of this is that Pres Bush II got a lot more of the hispanic vote because his immigration policies were much more moderate. I'm not saying they are wrong about that. I didn't vote for Gov Romney for many reasons. But first and foremost was the simple fact that I believe he would get us into another useless war/conflict. I probably could've overlooked a lot of the other stuff but that issue made me write in Ron Paul instead of vote for Romney. Some people are one issue voters, that's all there is to it. When that one issue is the deportation of your relatives/friends or the perceived general lack of concern for your entire race, it equals a landslide break for Pres Obama. I don't blame them either. I'd probably do the same thing if I were hispanic.
 
you actually make an excellent point to be more restrictive - at least as far as minimum qualifications - in order to be eligible for immigration status
this nation is filled with underskilled people looking for work
if they were not competing against illegals for those menial labor positions, they could earn a living wage

refresh.. I posted the wrong link..

The new link talks about how there is 11,000 jobs that need to be filled in the absence of Georgia's new immigration law. These positions they suggest filling with people currently serving time in jail, mainly because no one else will do the work.

Farmers do not have profit margins like big business. They can't afford to pay people high wages to pick produce from crops. Therefor its a symbiotic relationship between farmers and immigrants. Always has been.
 
I believe Turtle is right on this. Hispanics broke for Pres Obama in droves during this election. Just because someone is a legal citizen doesn't mean they A) Dont' have an illegal relative(s) B) Don't know an illegal immigrant C) Weren't an illegal themselves at some point D) Simply see Gov Romney's self deportation statement as general discrimination or lack of concern for hispanics. Further evidence of this is that Pres Bush II got a lot more of the hispanic vote because his immigration policies were much more moderate. I'm not saying they are wrong about that. I didn't vote for Gov Romney for many reasons. But first and foremost was the simple fact that I believe he would get us into another useless war/conflict. I probably could've overlooked a lot of the other stuff but that issue made me write in Ron Paul instead of vote for Romney. Some people are one issue voters, that's all there is to it. When that one issue is the deportation of your relatives/friends or the perceived general lack of concern for your entire race, it equals a landslide break for Pres Obama. I don't blame them either. I'd probably do the same thing if I were hispanic.

Yet Obama has deported more Illegal Immigrants than Bush ever did. Still don't get how this makes sense.
 
refresh.. I posted the wrong link..

The new link talks about how there is 11,000 jobs that need to be filled in the absence of Georgia's new immigration law. These positions they suggest filling with people currently serving time in jail, mainly because no one else will do the work.

Farmers do not have profit margins like big business. They can't afford to pay people high wages to pick produce from crops. Therefor its a symbiotic relationship between farmers and immigrants. Always has been.

Don't let farmers kid you. Farmers can simply raise their prices, for God's sake. If they can't afford to pay minimum wage -- or can't afford to pay whatEVER they need to pay to get their work done?

The rest of us are just going to have to pony up more for apples.

Filling jobs with people in jail? That sounds a lot like slavery to me.
 
Why are there no options for opening up our immigration more? Our country is replete with examples of immigrants flooding in very quickly, and native wages have largely been unaffected. There is very little evidence that low-skilled immigrants with little education drive down wages, and these poor people are far less likely to commit crimes or be a drain on the social safety net than natives. Even if immigrants taking welfare was a concern, why not just raise restrictions on immigrants getting welfare? Most states don't allow new citizens to get welfare for their first five years here. Welfare isn't a large draw for many; it's jobs and vastly superior economic opportunities.

Immigrants help our labor force diversify and become more efficient, and their fertility rates will keep our entitlements solvent for much longer than what would otherwise be the case. Obviously, we need to monitor those coming in to screen for criminals and the sick, but our country has done well when immigrants have been able to enter the country, largely freely. Restrictionists say that illegals need to wait in line. They make a good point, but the problem is that there is no line for most people. Unless you are highly skilled and have an employer who has already hired you, closely related to a citizen, a refugee, or one of the lucky few to get a work visa you probably are not getting in legally. Even those who can have to go through years of bureaucratic hell and spend thousands of dollars, and after all of this, they can still be deported for breaking arcane and arbitrarily enforced rules. Demand far outstrips the supply of legal immigration slots. Immigrants are simply going to have more opportunities here than most other places, and they will keep coming. If we want to solve our immigration problems, the system has to be greatly liberalized and streamlined. Immigration restriction is nothing more than dressed up protectionism.
 
IT is now well known that hispanic immigrants who came here legally or illegally and then gained citizenship were a major reason for Obama winning Florida, Virginia Colorado and perhaps some other states. Several discussions I heard today noted that the welfare promises of the DNC rather than amnesty were the main reason why more than 2/3s of these hispanic immigrants voted for Obama. 75% of them are not well educated or have a skilled trade.

Based on those assumptions, what should be done with our immigration policies



I heard several discussions today that the sky is really green and the super rich feel so bad about pissing away a billion dollars on a fail they are voluntarily asking for a tax increase...want to hear more about discussions I heard today ?
 
even for people who have no skills or education and have a very high probability of becoming dependent on handouts?

Simple solution, put restrictions on immigrants getting welfare.
 
No, I'm not denying it at all. I just don't think it has a damned thing to do what with our immigration policies should be. I don't know if that's true or false. It makes no difference.

It matters because what is best for Mexicans is not best for the United States...
 
Leave it as it is-some quotas based on countries of origin
do not change the laws but enforce them better
Restrict immigration to those with needed skills
restrict immigration to those able to provide for themselves
Have a complete moratorium on immigration for a period of years
Other


[x] Open borders for anyone in the world who has at least a bachelor's degree and has committed no crimes.
[x] Increased immigration for those who want to pursue a bachelor's degree.
[x] Offer in-state tuition at state universities for all immigrants, regardless of legal status, who meet state residency requirements.
[x] Amnesty and a path to citizenship for all undocumented immigrants who have been here at least five years and who have committed no (real) crimes.
[x] Free public education and health care to all children, regardless of legal status.
[x] No change to immigration quotas for unskilled labor.
 
Yet Obama has deported more Illegal Immigrants than Bush ever did. Still don't get how this makes sense.

Pres Obama didn't deport anyone. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement did. In addition, the increased deportation rate is due to a program started under Pres Bush II to ramp up deportations of fugitives and the "Secure Communities" program which simply deports arrested illegals instead of trying them in court (on a case by case basis of course). So I'm sure that hispanics, just like any other race of human being, have no issue with the worst of them being booted out. Do you?
 
I would figure a union supporter like you would be against such things.

Against what? Immigrants filling positions that no one else wants to do, or that because those immigrants have now left they are suggesting using criminals to fill those positions?

I am against the criminals to fill positions part.

I'm all for Immigrants doing work for farmers because I do realize that there is a need for farmers to have cheap labor. Profit margins for onion farmers can't be too extremely high, otherwise there would be far more onion farmers out there. They need to have this symbiosis between farmer and immigrant.

I myself use to work in my cousins tobacco fields here in wisconsin. It is **** work. Back breaking, dirty, hot, repetitive work that no one really wants to do. I did it because I was 16 and wanted gas money, but the Mexicans that I did work with needed it.
 
Don't let farmers kid you. Farmers can simply raise their prices, for God's sake. If they can't afford to pay minimum wage -- or can't afford to pay whatEVER they need to pay to get their work done?

The rest of us are just going to have to pony up more for apples.

Filling jobs with people in jail? That sounds a lot like slavery to me.

Farmers could pay $15 n hour and people still wouldn't do the work. Working in a tobacco field is hard ass work. I'm sure bending over all day in hot dirty conditions picking onions is not easy either. The point isn't the pay so much as the actual work that is being done.
 
Any sources?

PolitiFact | Has Barack Obama deported more people than any other president in U.S. history?

According to current figures from Immigration and Customs Enforcement -- the federal agency responsible for deportations -- Obama has removed 1.4 million people during his 42 months in office so far. Technically, that's fewer than under George W. Bush, whose cumulative total was 2 million. But Bush’s number covers eight full years, which doesn’t allow an apples-to-apples comparison.


Ok so I was wrong. Under Obama he's deported 1.4 Million in 4 years where under Bush he deported 2 Million in 8 years.. touche..
 
IT is now well known that hispanic immigrants who came here legally or illegally and then gained citizenship were a major reason for Obama winning Florida, Virginia Colorado and perhaps some other states. Several discussions I heard today noted that the welfare promises of the DNC rather than amnesty were the main reason why more than 2/3s of these hispanic immigrants voted for Obama. 75% of them are not well educated or have a skilled trade.

Based on those assumptions, what should be done with our immigration policies

Crime should not be rewarded. Other people wait in line to enter our country legally, so why should everyone else bend over backwards to cater to those who break into our nation? It's rather telling how wrong the progressives/liberals are in their thinking when you consider, iirc, that Mexico has stricter immigration laws.
 
Crime should not be rewarded. Other people wait in line to enter our country legally, so why should everyone else bend over backwards to cater to those who break into our nation? It's rather telling how wrong the progressives/liberals are in their thinking when you consider, iirc, that Mexico has stricter immigration laws.

Every country in the world has stricter immigration laws than we do. That use to be what made us a great nation. That you could come here and start a new life for yourself, yet the amount of people wanting to get in is FAR more than the amount we allow in legally, thats why we get the illegals.
 
I heard several discussions today that the sky is really green and the super rich feel so bad about pissing away a billion dollars on a fail they are voluntarily asking for a tax increase...want to hear more about discussions I heard today ?

Absolutely!!!!! This sounds really intriguing!!!!!!
 
PolitiFact | Has Barack Obama deported more people than any other president in U.S. history?

According to current figures from Immigration and Customs Enforcement -- the federal agency responsible for deportations -- Obama has removed 1.4 million people during his 42 months in office so far. Technically, that's fewer than under George W. Bush, whose cumulative total was 2 million. But Bush’s number covers eight full years, which doesn’t allow an apples-to-apples comparison.


Ok so I was wrong. Under Obama he's deported 1.4 Million in 4 years where under Bush he deported 2 Million in 8 years.. touche..

Hell, I could care less who deported more. I would argue that the times have changed and every President from now on will deport more than their predecessor did until the immigration problem is fixed. There are simple reasons for this as well.

Every country in the world has stricter immigration laws than we do. That use to be what made us a great nation. That you could come here and start a new life for yourself, yet the amount of people wanting to get in is FAR more than the amount we allow in legally, thats why we get the illegals.

I would argue that it is because we are perhaps the only MEDC's (More Economically Developed Countries) and Stage 4 to 5 (Demographic Tranistion Model - DTM) countries bordering a **** hole LEDC like Mexico...
 
[x] Open borders for anyone in the world who has at least a bachelor's degree and has committed no crimes.
[x] Increased immigration for those who want to pursue a bachelor's degree.
[x] Offer in-state tuition at state universities for all immigrants, regardless of legal status, who meet state residency requirements.
[x] Amnesty and a path to citizenship for all undocumented immigrants who have been here at least five years and who have committed no (real) crimes.
[x] Free public education and health care to all children, regardless of legal status.
[x] No change to immigration quotas for unskilled labor.

And you can pay for it. Wait! Are you one of the 47% who pay no taxes??
 
IT is now well known that hispanic immigrants who came here legally or illegally and then gained citizenship were a major reason for Obama winning Florida, Virginia Colorado and perhaps some other states. Several discussions I heard today noted that the welfare promises of the DNC rather than amnesty were the main reason why more than 2/3s of these hispanic immigrants voted for Obama. 75% of them are not well educated or have a skilled trade.

Based on those assumptions, what should be done with our immigration policies

We should legalize marijuana so Mexicans - who are the primary targets of immigration policies proposed by the GOP - won't have their country be a den of narco-terrorist cartels and can reimpose a democratic system and rebuild their economy so they won't engage in an exodus to the United States just so they eke out a living just surviving.
 
Back
Top Bottom