View Poll Results: What changes should be done to our immigration policy

Voters
45. You may not vote on this poll
  • Leave it as it is-some quotas based on countries of origin

    5 11.11%
  • do not change the laws but enforce them better

    10 22.22%
  • Restrict immigration to those with needed skills

    15 33.33%
  • restrict immigration to those able to provide for themselves

    11 24.44%
  • Have a complete moratorium on immigration for a period of years

    6 13.33%
  • Other

    17 37.78%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Immigration reform

  1. #81
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    Re: Immigration reform

    This is one area where I strongly disagree with my party. I'm conservative. I was listening to Mark Levin on the radio, and normally I'm in agreement with his positions on other issues, but I was yelling at the radio today when he brought up the same points you are making about immigration.

    I have lived in Latin America, and I have strong family ties to Brazil. Latinos are not the social welfare boogeymen the right makes them out to be. The only thing that would lead you to believe that is ignorance and xenophobia.

    You don't think the Mexicans that are in this country work hard? Give me a break. Most of them work harder than any of us on this thread, and they get paid jack to do it. Yeah, they use a lot of social services. You want to guess why? Because they're POOR. They're first generation immigrants who literally walked here or floated over on a raft. So what?

    I respect their dedication. I immigrated from Sweden legally, we flew first class. When I lived in Miami, I had friends from Cuba who literally floated over in a rubber raft, which is highly dangerous.

    Latinos, as a group, are good, good people. They have strong families, conservative social and religious values, and they believe in working their butts off. They're the perfect constituency for the Republicans if we'd stop alienating them by acting like a bunch of scared bigots.

    And finally, of course they will learn English. Like I said, they have strong families. If you meet these families, 99% of the time the parents are doing everything they can to make sure their kids go to English speaking schools and learn English. Why wouldn't they? They want their kids to succeed.

    As for the parents learning English.... well, you try living abroad for a few years. I've done it. Learning another language is ****ing hard. It takes years to do.


    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    IT is now well known that hispanic immigrants who came here legally or illegally and then gained citizenship were a major reason for Obama winning Florida, Virginia Colorado and perhaps some other states. Several discussions I heard today noted that the welfare promises of the DNC rather than amnesty were the main reason why more than 2/3s of these hispanic immigrants voted for Obama. 75% of them are not well educated or have a skilled trade.

    Based on those assumptions, what should be done with our immigration policies

  2. #82
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    Re: Immigration reform

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    It is.These scumabgs who hire illegals are just trying to pressure law makers into getting rid their state's anti-illegal immigration law. They are trying to claim that since no one will work for **** wages then they should be allowed to hire illegals.
    When you don't allow low-skill immigrants to come in and pick fruit, you drive up the price of fruit and you leave less available capital to support jobs elsewhere in the economy. This helps create more jobs. Most economist don't believe that illegals drive down wages, and even those that do believe that the effect is very small.
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  3. #83
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    Re: Immigration reform

    Give it up and just open up the borders. To not discriminate, open them to EVERYONE ONE, not just Latinos. Let 500,000,000 people flood in. They might be smarter about government, democracy and capitalism than Americans are now anyway. Most people of the world WANT the old American ways, while most Americans curse those values and even our country now.

    Open to door to 100,000,000 people from India and this country would swing dramatically towards capitalism and self reliance. So open up the doors. Particularly to Asians and Asian-Indians. Let them all in.

    Grant statehood to Mexico too. Give them all an SS card.

  4. #84
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    Re: Immigration reform

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Give it up and just open up the borders. To not discriminate, open them to EVERYONE ONE, not just Latinos. Let 500,000,000 people flood in. They might be smarter about government, democracy and capitalism than Americans are now anyway. Most people of the world WANT the old American ways, while most Americans curse those values and even our country now.

    Open to door to 100,000,000 people from India and this country would swing dramatically towards capitalism and self reliance. So open up the doors. Particularly to Asians and Asian-Indians. Let them all in.

    Grant statehood to Mexico too. Give them all an SS card.
    while you post that in jest, except for the give them a ss card statement, i concur with your proposal
    we should open our door to all comers
    come to the USA and spend your money
    but do not expect to get a job. do not expect to get a drivers license. do not expect your children to attend public school. do not expect your family to receive publicly funded medical attention or welfare in any form
    in short, come and spend your money in our economy but do not plan to extract any portion

    and before you ask, how do we do that, allow me to add that we enforce our laws. and we commit to pay any fine to the American citizen who identified to the homeland security (former INS folks) those undocumented immigrants who are illegally working, driving, sending kids to public school, or receiving any other form of public assistance
    it will become the new cottage industry
    and that woooosh sound you hear will be the caravan of cars travelling south

    this was one thing romney got right. they will self deport - but we first must make it apparent we are going to enforce our existing immigration laws
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Immigration reform

    There is no efficient way for an employer to know if a person is legal or not if they have fake documents. There is no citizenship verification process not subject to fraud and the IRS tends not to share its information with INS when they identify such folks. Punish employers who were victims of fraudulent documents they could never verify and people with brown skin will have great difficulty getting a corporate job even if they are 100% legit.

  6. #86
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    Re: Immigration reform

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Reform it. Make it easier to become citizen. Make it easier to get a work visa. Make the path to citizenship a lot more simpler and easier.
    Why? The answer is, don't allow the unskilled to immigrate. Work visas are already available and easier to get than many other nations.

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    Immigration reform

    It's simple. We do not need people who are a burden. But what we are doing is rather stupid.

    We should be asking anyone who can support themselves to come here. Since unemployment is high, I agree with limiting that. But when it improves the doors should be wide open based on means testing,
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    Re: Immigration reform

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    When you don't allow low-skill immigrants to come in and pick fruit, you drive up the price of fruit and you leave less available capital to support jobs elsewhere in the economy. This helps create more jobs. Most economist don't believe that illegals drive down wages, and even those that do believe that the effect is very small.
    These farmers don't want so called low skilled immigrants, if they did they would file for more H2A Visas. What these farmers want are low skilled illegals so that they can pay them **** wages.By the way labor has little to do with the overall cost of food.This tomatoes will cost five dollars a pound if farmers have to hire illegals is nothing more than pro-illegal scum fear mongering.


    Local News | Low-paid illegal work force has little impact on prices | Seattle Times Newspaper
    More than 7 million illegal immigrants work in the United States. They build houses, pick crops, slaughter cattle, stitch clothes, mow lawns, clean hotel rooms, cook restaurant meals and wash the dishes that come back.

    You might assume that the plentiful supply of low-wage illegal workers would translate into significantly lower prices for the goods and services they produce. In fact, their impact on consumer prices — call it the "illegal-worker discount" — is surprisingly small.

    The bag of Washington state apples you bought last weekend? Probably a few cents cheaper than it otherwise would have been, economists estimate. That steak dinner at a downtown restaurant? Maybe a buck off. Your new house in Subdivision Estates? Hard to say, but perhaps a few thousand dollars less expensive.

    The underlying reason, economists say, is that for most goods the labor — whether legal or illegal, native- or foreign-born — represents only a sliver of the retail price.

    Consider those apples — Washington's signature contribution to the American food basket.

    At a local QFC, Red Delicious apples go for about 99 cents a pound. Of that, only about 7 cents represents the cost of labor, said Tom Schotzko, a recently retired extension economist at Washington State University. The rest represents the grower's other expenses, warehousing and shipping fees, and the retailer's markup.

    And that's for one of the most labor-intensive crops in the state: It takes 150 to 190 hours of labor to grow and harvest an acre of apples, Schotzko said, compared to four hours for an acre of potatoes and 1 ˝ hours for an acre of wheat.

    The labor-intensive nature of many crops is a key reason agriculture continues to rely on illegal workers. A report by Jeffrey Passel, a demographer at the Pew Hispanic Center who has long studied immigration trends, estimates that 247,000 illegal immigrants were employed as "miscellaneous agricultural workers" last year — only 3.4 percent of the nation's 7.2 million illegal workers, according to Pew statistics, but 29 percent of all workers in that job category.

    Eliminating illegal farmworkers, by shrinking the pool of available labor, likely would raise wages for those who remain. Philip Martin, a professor of agricultural economics at the University of California, Davis, noted that two years after the old bracero program ended in 1964, the United Farm Workers union won a 40 percent increase for grape harvesters.

    A decade ago, two Iowa State University agricultural economists estimated that removing all illegal farmworkers would raise wages for seasonal farmworkers by 30 percent in the first couple of years, and 15 percent in the medium term.

    But supermarket prices of summer-fall fruits and vegetables, they concluded, would rise by just 6 percent in the short run — dropping to 3 percent over time, as imports took up some of the slack and some farmers mechanized their operations or shifted out of labor-intensive crops. (Winter-spring produce would be even less affected, they found, because so much already is imported.)
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  9. #89
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    Re: Immigration reform

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    IT is now well known that hispanic immigrants who came here legally or illegally and then gained citizenship were a major reason for Obama winning Florida, Virginia Colorado and perhaps some other states. Several discussions I heard today noted that the welfare promises of the DNC rather than amnesty were the main reason why more than 2/3s of these hispanic immigrants voted for Obama. 75% of them are not well educated or have a skilled trade.

    Based on those assumptions, what should be done with our immigration policies
    We should realize that we live in a globalized world, so I voted OTHER. Although such thing doesn't exist, but countries could trade immigration quotas between each other, with people's labor potential as the underlying commodity. Sooner or later, but rather sooner, every American will learn (the hard way?) that emigrating out of the USA in search of a job/livelyhood will be just as viable or more, than immigrating to the USA for the same.

    The real migration borders of this world are the demarkations between market manipulators, such as currency suppressors like China and account administrators such as the USA. So immigration legislation/control for individual country borders will always be an impossible concept.

  10. #90
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    Re: Immigration reform

    Quote Originally Posted by ab9924 View Post
    We should realize that we live in a globalized world, so I voted OTHER. Although such thing doesn't exist, but countries could trade immigration quotas between each other, with people's labor potential as the underlying commodity. Sooner or later, but rather sooner, every American will learn (the hard way?) that emigrating out of the USA in search of a job/livelyhood will be just as viable or more, than immigrating to the USA for the same.
    That untrue. The reality is America has the most lax border control and immigration law of most of the world's countries. Try to break into Mexico and see how they deal with you. Or New Zealand, or the UK.

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