View Poll Results: What changes should be done to our immigration policy

Voters
45. You may not vote on this poll
  • Leave it as it is-some quotas based on countries of origin

    5 11.11%
  • do not change the laws but enforce them better

    10 22.22%
  • Restrict immigration to those with needed skills

    15 33.33%
  • restrict immigration to those able to provide for themselves

    11 24.44%
  • Have a complete moratorium on immigration for a period of years

    6 13.33%
  • Other

    17 37.78%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Immigration reform

  1. #111
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    Re: Immigration reform

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    These farmers don't want so called low skilled immigrants, if they did they would file for more H2A Visas. What these farmers want are low skilled illegals so that they can pay them **** wages.By the way labor has little to do with the overall cost of food.This tomatoes will cost five dollars a pound if farmers have to hire illegals is nothing more than pro-illegal scum fear mongering.


    Local News | Low-paid illegal work force has little impact on prices | Seattle Times Newspaper
    More than 7 million illegal immigrants work in the United States. They build houses, pick crops, slaughter cattle, stitch clothes, mow lawns, clean hotel rooms, cook restaurant meals and wash the dishes that come back.

    You might assume that the plentiful supply of low-wage illegal workers would translate into significantly lower prices for the goods and services they produce. In fact, their impact on consumer prices call it the "illegal-worker discount" is surprisingly small.

    The bag of Washington state apples you bought last weekend? Probably a few cents cheaper than it otherwise would have been, economists estimate. That steak dinner at a downtown restaurant? Maybe a buck off. Your new house in Subdivision Estates? Hard to say, but perhaps a few thousand dollars less expensive.

    The underlying reason, economists say, is that for most goods the labor whether legal or illegal, native- or foreign-born represents only a sliver of the retail price.

    Consider those apples Washington's signature contribution to the American food basket.

    At a local QFC, Red Delicious apples go for about 99 cents a pound. Of that, only about 7 cents represents the cost of labor, said Tom Schotzko, a recently retired extension economist at Washington State University. The rest represents the grower's other expenses, warehousing and shipping fees, and the retailer's markup.

    And that's for one of the most labor-intensive crops in the state: It takes 150 to 190 hours of labor to grow and harvest an acre of apples, Schotzko said, compared to four hours for an acre of potatoes and 1 hours for an acre of wheat.

    The labor-intensive nature of many crops is a key reason agriculture continues to rely on illegal workers. A report by Jeffrey Passel, a demographer at the Pew Hispanic Center who has long studied immigration trends, estimates that 247,000 illegal immigrants were employed as "miscellaneous agricultural workers" last year only 3.4 percent of the nation's 7.2 million illegal workers, according to Pew statistics, but 29 percent of all workers in that job category.

    Eliminating illegal farmworkers, by shrinking the pool of available labor, likely would raise wages for those who remain. Philip Martin, a professor of agricultural economics at the University of California, Davis, noted that two years after the old bracero program ended in 1964, the United Farm Workers union won a 40 percent increase for grape harvesters.

    A decade ago, two Iowa State University agricultural economists estimated that removing all illegal farmworkers would raise wages for seasonal farmworkers by 30 percent in the first couple of years, and 15 percent in the medium term.

    But supermarket prices of summer-fall fruits and vegetables, they concluded, would rise by just 6 percent in the short run dropping to 3 percent over time, as imports took up some of the slack and some farmers mechanized their operations or shifted out of labor-intensive crops. (Winter-spring produce would be even less affected, they found, because so much already is imported.)
    The point still stands that low-skill immigrants cost even less in lowered wages and unemployment, which Illegals have almost no effect on either. History is replete with examples. Look at the Mariel Boat Lift. In 1980, 125,000 Cuban immigrants were allowed into Florida. The workforce of Miami-Dade County increased by 7% within six months, and native wages and unemployment were unaffected. South Africa under Apartheid had treated entry into their predominately White areas similarly to very anti-immigrant countries. Blacks were not allowed to go into many cities and regions without proper permits. When Apartheid ended millions of rural Blacks moved to the cities. Despite this massive migration bringing together two groups with massive wealth differences, the wages and employment of White South Africans did not decline. Immigrants increase the size of the labor force, and they allow people to move to other sectors, increasing productivity. Immigrants create a larger, more diversified workforce. This is good for all Americans.


    The Impact of the Mariel Boatlift on the Miami Labor Market
    "Doubleplusungood"

    George Orwell

  2. #112
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    Re: Immigration reform

    It makes no sense why America will not enforce its immigration laws. Is it illogical to think that, if there were terrorists who wished to enter this country, they could enter through America's southern border? The way these illegal aliens have entered America is an insult to not only those American citizens who waited to enter our nation legally, but those would-be citizens who are still waiting in line.

  3. #113
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    Re: Immigration reform

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    IT is now well known that hispanic immigrants who came here legally or illegally and then gained citizenship were a major reason for Obama winning Florida, Virginia Colorado and perhaps some other states. Several discussions I heard today noted that the welfare promises of the DNC rather than amnesty were the main reason why more than 2/3s of these hispanic immigrants voted for Obama. 75% of them are not well educated or have a skilled trade.

    Based on those assumptions, what should be done with our immigration policies
    Revoke their citizenship. I believe in majority rule, but the present majority has been imposed against the will of the original majority. So we have the right and the duty to change it back to what it was before Teddy Kennedy's 1965 I Hate Americans Act.
    On the outside, trickling down on the insiders.
    We won't live free until the 1% live in fear.
    Hey, richboys! Imagine the boot of democracy stomping on your faces, forever.

  4. #114
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    Re: Immigration reform

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    do you have a cite showing this to be accurate
    Sites and sources are just opinions and are less valid than personal opinions based on logic and experience. The Internet should not be a reference manual aiding the authoritarian and self-appointed people with the power to create sources. A "reliable source" is liable to lie or omit truly relevant data.
    On the outside, trickling down on the insiders.
    We won't live free until the 1% live in fear.
    Hey, richboys! Imagine the boot of democracy stomping on your faces, forever.

  5. #115
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    Re: Immigration reform

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Even if it's all true, I don't see what difference it makes as to what our policy should be on immigration.

    This is no different than believing that many in poor communities believe that voting for Obama will get them more welfare. And if we're stupid enough to give welfare to illegal immigrants? We deserve exactly what we get.
    We deserve what we weren't allowed to vote on? If we had a free country instead of a republic, we would have voted against welfare for immigration criminals, so why should we submit to your bullying insult that it is our own fault?
    On the outside, trickling down on the insiders.
    We won't live free until the 1% live in fear.
    Hey, richboys! Imagine the boot of democracy stomping on your faces, forever.

  6. #116
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    Re: Immigration reform

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Sadly the message that comes across loud and clear behind them motivation of this thread is that somebody believes the wrong people are voting the wrong way for the wrong candidates and electing the wrong people into the wrong offices and then using those offices to do the wrong things ..... so ....... we should do something so that the people they think are right and good will vote for the candidates they think are right and good and only the right and good people will get into office and do the right and good things to benefit folks like them.
    What's wrong with that? Multiculties and imported citizens support this betrayal because they think they are the right people voting the right way, etc.
    On the outside, trickling down on the insiders.
    We won't live free until the 1% live in fear.
    Hey, richboys! Imagine the boot of democracy stomping on your faces, forever.

  7. #117
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    Re: Immigration reform

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    I believe Turtle is right on this. Hispanics broke for Pres Obama in droves during this election. Just because someone is a legal citizen doesn't mean they A) Dont' have an illegal relative(s) B) Don't know an illegal immigrant C) Weren't an illegal themselves at some point D) Simply see Gov Romney's self deportation statement as general discrimination or lack of concern for hispanics. Further evidence of this is that Pres Bush II got a lot more of the hispanic vote because his immigration policies were much more moderate. I'm not saying they are wrong about that. I didn't vote for Gov Romney for many reasons. But first and foremost was the simple fact that I believe he would get us into another useless war/conflict. I probably could've overlooked a lot of the other stuff but that issue made me write in Ron Paul instead of vote for Romney. Some people are one issue voters, that's all there is to it. When that one issue is the deportation of your relatives/friends or the perceived general lack of concern for your entire race, it equals a landslide break for Pres Obama. I don't blame them either. I'd probably do the same thing if I were hispanic.
    Of course, we're not allowed to suggest that even more important to them than welfare or immigration policies is the fact that They Hate White People. Obama represents Montezuma's Revenge.
    On the outside, trickling down on the insiders.
    We won't live free until the 1% live in fear.
    Hey, richboys! Imagine the boot of democracy stomping on your faces, forever.

  8. #118
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    Re: Immigration reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    [x] Open borders for anyone in the world who has at least a bachelor's degree and has committed no crimes.
    [x] Increased immigration for those who want to pursue a bachelor's degree.
    [x] Offer in-state tuition at state universities for all immigrants, regardless of legal status, who meet state residency requirements.
    [x] Amnesty and a path to citizenship for all undocumented immigrants who have been here at least five years and who have committed no (real) crimes.
    [x] Free public education and health care to all children, regardless of legal status.
    [x] No change to immigration quotas for unskilled labor.
    [X-out the other Xs] Replace our dysfunctional class-biased, childish, and self-destructive indentured-servitude education with paid professional training and you will get the full development of the potential of the native-born Americans, which is the highest in the world. Not only will there be no shortages in skilled work, but the no-talent bluebloods and brown-noses who occupy those positions now will be replaced by more talented employees.
    On the outside, trickling down on the insiders.
    We won't live free until the 1% live in fear.
    Hey, richboys! Imagine the boot of democracy stomping on your faces, forever.

  9. #119
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    Re: Immigration reform

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the market should set wages--if you want a wage sufficient to live on-have the skills sufficient to earn such a wage
    I agree, but how can you possibly square that with your anti-immigrant position? Why do you support protectionist handouts when there are qualified workers available who are willing to do the job for less? Why are you so jealous of those who took the time to get a skill/education?


    It is patently absurd to be virulently anti-immigrant and also oppose wage controls. Americans aren't going to do those jobs for the wages that immigrants will do them, and the jobs aren't worth much more than that.
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  10. #120
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    Re: Immigration reform

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post

    Filling jobs with people in jail? That sounds a lot like slavery to me.
    Why this sudden sympathy for people who owe a debt to society?
    On the outside, trickling down on the insiders.
    We won't live free until the 1% live in fear.
    Hey, richboys! Imagine the boot of democracy stomping on your faces, forever.

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