View Poll Results: Is social conservatism finished as a nationally competitive ideology?

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  • Yes

    41 53.25%
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Thread: Is Social Conservatism Finished as a Nationally Competitive Ideology?

  1. #31
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    Re: Is Social Conservatism Finished as a Nationally Competitive Ideology?

    Quote Originally Posted by gavinfielder View Post
    Where and how is this the case?

    Liberalism does not promote single-parent households. That it does is nothing but social conservative fear mongering. It champions its own ideology without rational judgement of anything opposing it and perceives an opposition that doesn't exist.
    Yes because two guys or two women can't be a family.

    And it's better for a wife to stay in a physically abusive relationship for the kids.

    Yeah.....sometimes I think social cons live on a different planet.

    Who is punishing people for marrying and raising kids in a two parent household? Last I checked, our tax system favors marriage quite considerably. The LAST thing you want to do is file single. Married Filing Jointly is a huge incentive to get married.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  2. #32
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    Re: Is Social Conservatism Finished as a Nationally Competitive Ideology?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Uh, that wasn't his primary platform. Dubya never ran on "I'm a social con, vote for me."
    indeed, bush ran on the platform of 'you'd rather have a beer with me than this global warming nerd and the guy who left his buddies to die in vietnam'

  3. #33
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    Is Social Conservatism Finished as a Nationally Competitive Ideology?

    Liberalism, as we know it, tells people they can screw anyone and live with anyone they want as well as put anything in their body they want WITHOUT taking responsibility for the consequences, and then proceeds to take all real freedoms away.

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    Re: Is Social Conservatism Finished as a Nationally Competitive Ideology?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    In Europe, social conservatism is a really big deal and many parties who are in power accept it as their platform.
    Not in the American sense. I live in the UK at the moment with a conservative (coalition government) & its probably left of Obama.

    Mind you if I think back to Kennedy & his inaugural address in 1961, when the then Democrat president stood before the world & talked about things like "...the belief that the rights of man come not from the genorisity of the state, but from the hand of god" & "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country", you can see a fundemental shift in the country.

    Kennedy was a Democrat but today he'd struggle for the GOP nomination, & as for his own party, some would likely dismiss him as a right-wing, racist, religious nut.

    That clock wont be turned back, there will not be return to at least part of the unique experiment that was America, instead a different future awaits the nation.

    As a kid, like many of my generation, we looked in wonder at America. Like the nations of Europe it was a western nation, but it was different, it had thrown off much of Europes history, taken a continental landmass & built the most powerful nation in the world on the back of a rugged independance, & a cherished love of liberty.

    For better or worse a chapter in Americas history has now closed & for better or worse I mourn it simply because it was there, it was unique, & it offered a choice that wasnt on any other western table, & that choice wont return any day soon.

    Yes, American conservatives could now adopt the European model, & might gain great success from it, but thats not the world they had in mind, & it does mean the passing of an age.

    The sky wont fall down today, & the world wont end, but it has changed a little for ever.

  5. #35
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    Re: Is Social Conservatism Finished as a Nationally Competitive Ideology?

    Its not dead...but their extremism will never win

  6. #36
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    Is Social Conservatism Finished as a Nationally Competitive Ideology?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Austin View Post
    Not in the American sense. I live in the UK at the moment with a conservative (coalition government) & its probably left of Obama.

    Mind you if I think back to Kennedy & his inaugural address in 1961, when the then Democrat president stood before the world & talked about things like "...the belief that the rights of man come not from the genorisity of the state, but from the hand of god" & "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country", you can see a fundemental shift in the country.

    Kennedy was a Democrat but today he'd struggle for the GOP nomination, & as for his own party, some would likely dismiss him as a right-wing, racist, religious nut.

    That clock wont be turned back, there will not be return to at least part of the unique experiment that was America, instead a different future awaits the nation.

    As a kid, like many of my generation, we looked in wonder at America. Like the nations of Europe it was a western nation, but it was different, it had thrown off much of Europes history, taken a continental landmass & built the most powerful nation in the world on the back of a rugged independance, & a cherished love of liberty.

    For better or worse a chapter in Americas history has now closed & for better or worse I mourn it simply because it was there, it was unique, & it offered a choice that wasnt on any other western table, & that choice wont return any day soon.

    Yes, American conservatives could now adopt the European model, & might gain great success from it, but thats not the world they had in mind, & it does mean the passing of an age.

    The sky wont fall down today, & the world wont end, but it has changed a little for ever.
    FWIW, I credited you with this and used it as my FB status. Well spoken, friend.

  7. #37
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    Re: Is Social Conservatism Finished as a Nationally Competitive Ideology?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krhazy View Post
    For two consecutive elections now -- one in which Republicans won by large margins, and now one in which Democrats won despite the economy being heavily against them -- social issues seem to have cost Republicans major Senate seats in right-leaning states. The issue of abortion seems to be killing Republican candidacies. Gay marriage is turning a corner in popularity. And the demographics are shifting extremely quickly even further to the left.

    I think it's usually a terrible idea to say "such and such an ideology is dead" after an election. These things have a tendency to turn around somehow or another. But it's hard to avoid the conclusion after the past four years that this country is shifting dramatically, social conservatism is no longer a winning ideology nationally, and it is unlikely to be one again for the foreseeable future.

    What do you think?
    Possibly but maybe not. Interestingly key voting blocks who presently vote in democrat majorities are also staunchly socially conservative. The paradox is the GOP has made these voting blocks out to be "a problem", deeply offended them in some way or dismissed their interests in other areas that they have voted against their own values in many cases. At this point, I think the best chance social conservatism has going forward is for those values to be advanced within the democrat party. African Americans are strongly socially conservative and when asked to vote on just a socially conservative issue, they are the most reliable voting block out there for traditional American values. The growing Latino vote are culturally socially conservative with a strong allegiance to Roman Catholic values. However both groups have been so offended by the GOP I think getting to "vote Republican" to advance their values is an unrealistic fantasy. If the objective is exploit their values to recruit new voters into the GOP after all that's been done to drive them away, forget it. If the goal is simply to advance traditional family values even if that means from within the democratic party, maybe.
    Having opinions all over the map is a good sign of a person capable of autonomous thinking. Felix -2011

  8. #38
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    Re: Is Social Conservatism Finished as a Nationally Competitive Ideology?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny_rebson View Post
    Maybe some people considered the last two GOP presidential nominees to be too moderate.
    Nope....I think people think they are extremeists....all or nothing...black or white...there are no real moderates and that is what they seriously lack and why they lost.

  9. #39
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    Re: Is Social Conservatism Finished as a Nationally Competitive Ideology?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krhazy View Post
    For two consecutive elections now -- one in which Republicans won by large margins, and now one in which Democrats won despite the economy being heavily against them -- social issues seem to have cost Republicans major Senate seats in right-leaning states. The issue of abortion seems to be killing Republican candidacies. Gay marriage is turning a corner in popularity. And the demographics are shifting extremely quickly even further to the left.

    I think it's usually a terrible idea to say "such and such an ideology is dead" after an election. These things have a tendency to turn around somehow or another. But it's hard to avoid the conclusion after the past four years that this country is shifting dramatically, social conservatism is no longer a winning ideology nationally, and it is unlikely to be one again for the foreseeable future.

    What do you think?
    I think abortion is more even than some liberals are willing to admit - but stuff like pot legalization and gay marriage are trending in a direction that is not favorable to social conservatives.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    Re: Is Social Conservatism Finished as a Nationally Competitive Ideology?

    I wish people would quit calling them "social issues" and "social conservatives", they're religious issues and religious republicans.

    BTW - I read a report this morning that claimed the margin of vote was all the "social conservatives" who stayed home because they couldn't bring themselves to vote for a Mormon.

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