View Poll Results: If you had to choose and these were the only options available, which of the followin

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  • Option A

    19 43.18%
  • Option B

    8 18.18%
  • Option C

    16 36.36%
  • Option D

    1 2.27%
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Thread: The Future of The USA

  1. #31
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfman24 View Post
    none of the above.
    Another cop out answer

  2. #32
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    Cop out answer IMO, especially since everyone who has said this could have just ignored the post. Not ignoring it means it struck something that made you want to reply. But rather than facing the hard hypothetical decision, people use a variety of ego protecting vices to avoid it.

    If one person doesn't like your poll, maybe the fault lies in that one person.


    If NOBODY likes your poll.... maybe you should consider that the fault is in the poll.... ya think?

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  3. #33
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Yes, seriously. If you're saying this OP is an abstract hypothetical dilemma that has little connection to reality, then I agree. I wasn't shaken to my core; I was unimpressed. I am not unwilling to answer hard questions, I'm unwilling to be bound by false dichotomies. I don't lack experience with these issues, I apparently have more experience with them than you because I can recognize when I'm being presented with an unrealistic set of options.
    If if you were unimpressed, then why put your 2 cents in? Obviously the post struck some cord inside you

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I decline to let other people define my options for me, particularly when those options are not realistic.
    Its an exercise. If you didn't want to partake in it, why did you say anything at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    You don't know me bud. I'm not some college freshman, I'm an ex-cop. I'm a middle aged blue collar single father with a teenage son and a mortgage: I make hard decisions every day. You talking down to me is pretty damn funny.
    I know several people that have had the hardest lives in the world, much harder than what you are describing. Some of them are able to answer these types of questions, some of them aren't. Sometimes people who have had the easiest lives can answer these types of questions. Its not about how hard one's life is. Its about ones ability to make decisions on a priority basis... something that our government is supposed to be doing every day.

  4. #34
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    If one person doesn't like your poll, maybe the fault lies in that one person.
    The question is why do so many people find this poll aversive? I have a hunch that it is related to the fact that it is a dilemma. Have you ever heard of the life boat ethical decision? Its another example of an exercise in ethics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    If NOBODY likes your poll.... maybe you should consider that the fault is in the poll.... ya think?
    Lets not get defensive now

  5. #35
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    The question is why do so many people find this poll aversive? I have a hunch that it is related to the fact that it is a dilemma. Have you ever heard of the life boat ethical decision? Its another example of an exercise in ethics.
    Yes, I know about ethical dilemmas and the lifeboat question and game theory and all that.



    Lets not get defensive now

    ... said the pot to the kettle....

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
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  6. #36
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by roflpublican View Post
    The unfortunate thing is, our allies are underwater. the EU consists of most of NATO, and they're all spiraling down the same trap Hoover jammed us into 80+ years ago. We are morally obligated to maintain our position as #1, until a viable #2 emerges that can be accepted. China is a dictatorship, so is Russia, heres to the rise of democratic republican brazil because until then we need more carriers, more nukes, and more delta force platoons.
    How we got here may be a debate for another time. Its something to learn from in order to avoid making the same mistake(s) again. What matters most is the path forward.

    So I ask, what do you think would happen if we weren't #1? What if we were #2? Then, if we went further down, what if we were #3? And so on? What would happen? What is your forecast? What are your fears?

    Also, why more carriers? Why more nukes? Why more delta forces? What will happen if we don't get more of those things? What are you afraid would happen? Fear is probably the most poisonous enemy we have and it is self induced. IMO. It limits creativity and our ability to allow change. It has its survival benefits, but fear unregulated is poisonous and very dangerous.

  7. #37
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    I think the issue many are taking with the poll is that it seems to have an overall negative outlook of our future. IE: we have to give up something critically important. I don't think the US has to do that, we're an incredibly well endowed nation with energy, minerals, educated people, infrastructure, military, economy, masters of our hemisphere in all but name, etc. We can have it all, if we do it right. I think making the thread a little more open-ended, without specific scenarios, and instead challenging people with a 'what would you do, provide details/specifics or don't post' would make the discussion smoother.


    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    How we got here may be a debate for another time. Its something to learn from in order to avoid making the same mistake(s) again. What matters most is the path forward.

    So I ask, what do you think would happen if we weren't #1? What if we were #2? Then, if we went further down, what if we were #3? And so on? What would happen? What is your forecast? What are your fears?

    Also, why more carriers? Why more nukes? Why more delta forces? What will happen if we don't get more of those things? What are you afraid would happen? Fear is probably the most poisonous enemy we have and it is self induced. IMO. It limits creativity and our ability to allow change. It has its survival benefits, but fear unregulated is poisonous and very dangerous.

    Yes, I am very afraid of what a dictatorship like China would do to a weak America. Are you not? At a time when our 'enemies' are ramping up their military spending, we can't be ramping ours down. We need an armed force that can out-and-out obliterate any enemy that seeks to do us harm: that's how we ensure they rarely, if ever, will attempt to do us harm.

    A picture i found awhile back on the internet explains what i mean, about why we need to maintain arms (an armed government and an armed populace) and maintain them well:
    The Future of The USA-second-amendment-george-washington-british-revolutionary-political-poster-1275189913-jpg

    also, i don't see what's wrong with the rational fear that 1.5 billion people brainwashed from birth into an expansionist dictatorial communist ideology would potentially be a threat to us.
    Last edited by roflpublican; 11-04-12 at 08:17 PM.

  8. #38
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Yes, I know about ethical dilemmas and the lifeboat question and game theory and all that.
    OK, so what of the lifeboat? Did you refuse to engage in that too?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    ... said the pot to the kettle....
    I can see where what I said may have offended you and for that I apologize; however, I believe there is some truth to what I am saying. That is, what I am asking is a difficult question to answer. There isn't much precedence to rely on; one must rely on their own hard-set values and then rationalize those in a manner that is socially acceptable. Its complicated.

  9. #39
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by roflpublican View Post
    I think the issue many are taking with the poll is that it seems to have an overall negative outlook of our future. IE: we have to give up something critically important. I don't think the US has to do that, we're an incredibly well endowed nation with energy, minerals, educated people, infrastructure, military, economy, masters of our hemisphere in all but name, etc. We can have it all, if we do it right. I think making the thread a little more open-ended, without specific scenarios, and instead challenging people with a 'what would you do, provide details/specifics or don't post' would make the discussion smoother.
    Thank you for your honest response. It is refreshing. I agree that we are a well endowed nation. I also don't believe things are as bad as the media is making them out to be. I believe most of it is to create drama and an attempt for political parties to get their licks. There is big money in politics. Different people benefit from different political figures being in power. Big big money.

    In regards to open questions - that would ruin the point of the exercise. I have made several closed ended polls and this is the first that I have gotten such aversive reactions to.

    Quote Originally Posted by roflpublican View Post
    Yes, I am very afraid of what a dictatorship like China would do to a weak America. Are you not?
    What exactly do you think they would do to us if we weren't top dog?

  10. #40
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    A is the bankruptcy option. I feel C is a reasonable option. Most USA believe the Media hype and imagery and can't see the real world. They know the cliff looming on the horizon and rapidly approaching is going to disappear before it gets here, just like in the movies. It ain't the movies, it's the real world.

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