View Poll Results: If you had to choose and these were the only options available, which of the followin

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  • Option A

    19 43.18%
  • Option B

    8 18.18%
  • Option C

    16 36.36%
  • Option D

    1 2.27%
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Thread: The Future of The USA

  1. #11
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    Its simply choosing the greater of 4 evils. If it were easy it wouldn't be considered an ethical "dilemma" ....
    Weighted evils. Thats the point, because the choices arent "even" the individuals will not vote in a representative manner voting against what they believe in to produce a skewed result.

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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Depends on who's Top Dog #2.

    We are peacekeepers in the world -- as much as we like to moan, that's what we are. That's what we inherit by being the most powerful nation in the world. I'm at a loss to engage this topic, because I don't think we have to give up any ethical principles to accomplish what we'd like. Heck, we're almost there. We just have to figure out a way to afford it.
    Perhaps your ethical principles differs from mine.

    Its telling that you won't give a direction that you are leaning in. Its not going to hurt anyone if you give an option that you lean toward. The only way it would be impossible for you to say that you did not lean toward one of these options is if the pros outweighed the cons equally for each option for you, which is highly unlikely, which leads me to question your motives for not giving a leaning.

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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Austin View Post
    Weighted evils. Thats the point, because the choices arent "even" the individuals will not vote in a representative manner voting against what they believe in to produce a skewed result.
    unfortunately, there are certain ethical values that all people value over other values - the problem is that people don't want to actually look at those - it's difficult to make decisions like this - have you ever heard of the life boat dilemma? if not, this is likely your first time to face a difficult ethical dilemma, so I can understand how it can be hard... I remember the first time I was faced with a hypothetical dilemma like this... it was really hard to answer... however, I found that when forced to, I was able to answer - it takes a lot of courage though - either way, thank you for taking the time to consider it even if you didn't want to participate

  4. #14
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    I can't vote because I don't think these options reflect reality very accurately, or at least that the effects of the various trade-offs are too strongly skewed.

    We could cut social spending by 40% and still help poor people as much or more than we currently do, if we cut the waste and graft and pork out of the system.

    We could cut the military 20% and still have the most powerful military in the world by far... especially if we cut the pork and graft and waste out of the system.

    If we did those two things we'd still be top dog, and we'd have a balanced budget.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    Option E: none of the above.
    I second this. None of the choices are valid.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    If you read my introduction, you would see that what I listed were hypothetical situations. I am under no disillusionment that these options are necessarily going to occur, although I acknowledge the possibility that they could be close to some situations that may occur. Let me ask you this... which option do you think is currently the most similar to the situation the US is in today?
    Indeed, I read your post. I voted A, but proceeded to explain why in my view none of the options are likely.


    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I can't vote because I don't think these options reflect reality very accurately, or at least that the effects of the various trade-offs are too strongly skewed.

    We could cut social spending by 40% and still help poor people as much or more than we currently do, if we cut the waste and graft and pork out of the system.

    We could cut the military 20% and still have the most powerful military in the world by far... especially if we cut the pork and graft and waste out of the system.

    If we did those two things we'd still be top dog, and we'd have a balanced budget.
    Can you identify what pork, graft, and waste you would cut from the military/system? I see those words thrown around quite a bit, but rarely with specifics behind them.

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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I can't vote because I don't think these options reflect reality very accurately, or at least that the effects of the various trade-offs are too strongly skewed.

    We could cut social spending by 40% and still help poor people as much or more than we currently do, if we cut the waste and graft and pork out of the system.

    We could cut the military 20% and still have the most powerful military in the world by far... especially if we cut the pork and graft and waste out of the system.

    If we did those two things we'd still be top dog, and we'd have a balanced budget.
    Seriously? This is an ethical dilemma, its supposed to be hard; that's the whole point. I wouldn't have made the options so skewed if I just wanted things to be easy. I dare you to think about what this is all about and truly try to answer a hard question. Situations like this often shake people to their core, leaving them resistant to taking a stance. Everyone who reads the post has a knee jerk reaction, but refuses to share it as it. Only those who are secure and confident in their arguments and in their values will be able to answer the question. The other problem is that most people have no experience with dealing with these issues and perhaps they don't want to. People are faced with hard decisions every day of their lives, harder than you would know. The least we could do is to figure out where we are leaning. This kind of exercise is preparatory. A nation with citizens that are unwilling to answer hard questions, will not succeed. Oh well, its an opportunity for growth, take it or leave it.

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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    I second this. None of the choices are valid.

    I don't remember anyone saying that these choices were valid. That's why I said "hypothetical". Just pick one you lean toward. The validity of the options is not necessary for picking a leaning. Read some of my other posts. This is an exercise for growth and grounding.

  9. #19
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Long view. Exploiting the **** out of a relationship with burgeoning, relatively culturally similar, ideologically passive economies down south and north whatever else comes?

    You can always rely on what you know. Don't **** it up on the hypothetical way down. Eurasia is for gamblers.

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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by roflpublican View Post
    Indeed, I read your post. I voted A, but proceeded to explain why in my view none of the options are likely.
    Oh, OK, sorry, I didn't realize that. I think I pick option C, however I would most like something that is a mix between option b and c. It just seems to be the most ethical to me. I believe wealth and power are under rated if you have the right allies. I believe that it is hard to compete with certain other immoral countries, e.g. china. However, I believe that if enough like minded countries banded together we could see option C realized while still keeping a lot of wealth and power.

    Can you identify what pork, graft, and waste you would cut from the military/system? I see those words thrown around quite a bit, but rarely with specifics behind them.[/QUOTE]

    Yes I agree with you roflpublican, ambiguous statements like these are nauseating and non-committal.

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