View Poll Results: If you had to choose and these were the only options available, which of the followin

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  • Option A

    19 43.18%
  • Option B

    8 18.18%
  • Option C

    16 36.36%
  • Option D

    1 2.27%
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Thread: The Future of The USA

  1. #141
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Start naming names, oh covetous one. Who specifically out there is a good example of this characterization?

    Personally I think your entire worldview requires stereotype.
    I believe he is speaking from experience, or simply by understanding human psychology... it sounds rather accurate to me... of course, these people he is talking about would never be consciously aware that they are that way... that would cause too much cognitive dissonance

  2. #142
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Its sad that out of the following options from the OP (see below), more people picked option A than any other option... perhaps more people need to vote on this?

    Option A:
    Being number one in the world economy.

    Increasing the current disadvantage of those born into poor families.

    No free access to healthcare.

    No free access to any level of education.

    No food and shelter safety nets.

    Being number one in military power.

    Voting power is decided by the level of monetary contributions in taxes.



    Option B:
    Being among the top 10 economic forces in the world.

    Slightly decreasing the disadvantage of those born into poor families.

    Free access to only the most minimal health care for the poor.

    Free access to no more than secondary education for the poor.

    Food and shelter safety nets that serve only to keep people alive.

    Being among the top 10 military powers in the world.

    Everyone pays the same percentage of their income in taxes.


    Option C:
    Being among the top 50% of the economic forces in the world.

    Almost complete removal of the disadvantage of those born into poor families.

    Free access to quality health care for the poor.

    Free access to all schooling levels and all schools for those capable of completing the coursework.

    Food and shelter safety nets that serve to allow equal physical health.

    Being among the top 50% of military forces in the world.

    Progressive taxation is applied without loopholes.


    Option D:
    Unknown world economic power status.

    Enforcing equality of outcome (not to be confused with equality of opportunity).

    Unknown world military power status.

    Taxes are decided based on the amount needed to create equality of outcome.

  3. #143
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    I believe he is speaking from experience, or simply by understanding human psychology... it sounds rather accurate to me... of course, these people he is talking about would never be consciously aware that they are that way... that would cause too much cognitive dissonance
    It sounds accurate? Must I really break it down? Before I do, just remember that these seething criticisms of the evil rich rarely come with any real life rich villains... just the stereotype thereof.

    Quote Originally Posted by PrometheusBound
    If we have to do it on our own, so must the children of the rich. If we outlaw a plutocrat's privilege of setting up his children with opportunities far beyond what they could get on their own,
    Children, whether "of the rich" or not, must not be required to do anything on their own. They're children. It doesn't matter whether their parents will buy them everything or can hardly buy them anything. They're still children and children are dependents. There is no realistic or ethical way to saddlebag children just because their parents are able to set them up for success better than other parents are able to set their children up.

    Should we subtract a grade from the math tests of students whose parents are math teachers? There are many, many, many types of advantages that parents can try to pass down to their children, as they should, and to suggest government interference in that process for the sake of fairness is one of the most ridiculous propositions around.

    he would have to use his economic dominance to make it more possible for the rest of us if we made his own children subject to the same competitive requirements as everybody else.
    This inherently does not make sense. It is anti-competitive to force winners to accept handicaps for equality's sake. Competitiveness means accepting the inevitable realities of different outcomes. To force equal outcomes is to be anti-competitive. Not thought through at all. Just emotional vitriol.

    Of course, because greedheads are nasty or negligent parents, they have to buy the love of anyone close to them to make up for their own distant and self-obsessed personalities. They'll throw a tantrum if they can't finance trophy children, so they'll have to be forced to quit their claim that they have a right to use their money for anti-social goals.
    And then it careens further into careless and completely unsupported generalizations. You're defending this, MusicAdventurer? Really?

    My challenge still stands. Before we see anymore broad-brush generalizations about anyone with significant money or anyone who's able to pass down some sort of competitive advantage to his or her children, why don't the ranters like PrometheusBound provide some real life examples to go along with their virulence? Sure there are some criminally bad rich ***holes out there. No doubt about that. But why not start naming some archetypes of this characterization?

    I know why. Because the myth of a purely evil enemy is more arousing than identifying real life examples, and frankly some emotional types enjoy arousing themselves with rage more than being rational and balanced.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 07-19-13 at 12:00 AM.

  4. #144
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    NOt sad at all. What is sad is how many people didn't pick A. Lots of parasites



  5. #145
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    It sounds accurate? Must I really break it down? Before I do, just remember that these seething criticisms of the evil rich rarely come with any real life rich villains... just the stereotype thereof.
    Sure it was a little harsh... sometimes reality is... I personally don't think those with overwhelming amounts of wealth are evil by nature... I've posted exactly how I see them in other posts. In summary, they are just humans like everyone else and mostly a victim or their environment

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Children, whether "of the rich" or not, must not be required to do anything on their own. They're children. It doesn't matter whether their parents will buy them everything or can hardly buy them anything. They're still children and children are dependents. There is no realistic way to saddlebag children just because their parents are able to set them up for success better than other parents are able to set their children up.
    The way I thought would be to disallow inherited money, or at least minimize it to a certain amount, so long as other children were allowed the same. In addition, benefits such as going to better schools etc. would not be allow, instead, funding for schools would be allotted equally to all schools. Parents could decide which schools they want their kids to go to based on that schools performance... or simply home school them... etc. there are many ways to make the starting line more even

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Should we subtract a grade from the math grade of students whose parents are math teachers? There are many, many, many types of advantages that parents can try to pass down to their children, and to suggest government interference in that process for the sake of fairness is one of the most ridiculous propositions around.
    Of course these types of advantages couldn't be controlled. I don't think anyone is proposing that we could ever makes things completely even at the start of life

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    This inherently does not make sense. It is anti-competitive to force winners to accept handicaps for equality's sake. Competitiveness means accepting the inevitable realities of different outcomes. To force equal outcomes is to be anti-competitive. Not thought through at all. Just emotional vitriol.
    Remember, we aren't talking about equality of outcome here... simply equality of starting points (or as close as we can get it)... what I feel equality of opportunity should actually refer to

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    And then it careens further into careless and completely unsupported generalizations. You're defending this, MusicAdventurer? Really?
    There is usually a grain of truth in any argument. PrometheusBound may be looking at the most negative aspect of things, but he has a point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    My challenge still stands. Before we see anymore broad-brush generalizations about anyone with significant money or anyone who's able to pass down some sort of competitive advantage to his or her children, why don't the ranters like PrometheusBound provide some real life examples to go along with their virulence?
    I truly could care less about arguing over the character or people in different positions in life. I am more interested in how people's character affects their decisions, their outlook on life and so on. I am most interested in how people's character contributes to the "evils" of life or diminishes them.

  6. #146
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    NOt sad at all. What is sad is how many people didn't pick A. Lots of parasites

    LOL.. hello again TurtleDude - I would expect nothing less from you my friend

  7. #147
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    LOL.. hello again TurtleDude - I would expect nothing less from you my friend
    I call em like I see em. I tire of people expecting others to pay for their existence



  8. #148
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I call em like I see em. I tire of people expecting others to pay for their existence
    Yes... I know you do. Me too

    Still, that's not really what this post is about.

    Its more pertaining to allowing there to be equal starting points for all (not to be confused with equal outcome)

  9. #149
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    Yes... I know you do. Me too

    Still, that's not really what this post is about.

    Its more pertaining to allowing there to be equal starting points for all (not to be confused with equal outcome)
    the cure is far worse than the alleged disease



  10. #150
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the cure is far worse than the alleged disease
    And what do you propose the cure is then? (by the way I know you qualified disease with "alleged"... but I know that deep down you know there is a problem)

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