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Thread: The Future of The USA

  1. #121
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    to some lefties that can mean if someone makes more than average and another makes less
    TurtleDude... to some lefties I think you would be correct about that... however, I wonder what percentage that is? I think what most people have a problem with is the artificial wealth that some hoard out of greed and insecurity while others are struggling to find healthy meals and shelter due to systemic problems.

    We must remember that we are all human and we are all simply responding the best way we know how, to our environment. The evils of the world are a reflection of the interaction of humanity and the environment/system in which they live/face. If more people realized that, I believe the world would be a much better place.

    It is important to note that the greedy, hoarders are also a product of their environment and aren't evil; they are just doing what they know how to do due to the environment they grew up in etc. A lot of their problem lies in their insecurities and lack of appropriate social interaction. Being wealthy brings its own demons. I don't think enough time is spent talking about that aspect of things either. For example, simply being wealthy can make many people feel lonely. To fill that hole, many try very hard to fill it with more money.

    The problem is that in our EEA (environment of evolutionary adaptedness), such severe wealth differentials were not possible. Therefore, in a relatively short period of time (i.e. from when people first started using money and hoarding it), huge differentials in power (i.e. money differentials) have been able to occur with little time for humanity to evolve in response. In other words, we used to live in small tribes, were there was a certain degree of order, but that was also somewhat flexible or different members had different strengths. However, it is likely that not many people had the kinds of power over others that we see today. In addition, even those who were higher in the social hierarchy were still not ostracized from the group. Do to the flexibility and changeability of the power in these social hierarchies, people remained close, socially. This is not what we see today. Thus, the wealthy try to fill their social holes with money, snuffing those out beneath them. The only way to fix this problem is to bring the classes closer together; to get everyone interacting again. One of the ways to do this is to decrease the income differences we observe.
    Last edited by MusicAdventurer; 11-06-12 at 10:21 PM.

  2. #122
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    TurtleDude... to some lefties I think you would be correct about that... however, I wonder what percentage that is? I think what most people have a problem with is the artificial wealth that some hoard out of greed and insecurity while others are struggling to find health meals and shelter due to systemic problems. We must remember that we are all human and we are all simply responding the best way we know how, to our environment. The evils of the world are a reflection of the interaction of humanity and the environment/system in which they live/face. If more people realized that, I believe the world would be a much better place. The greedy, hoarders are also a product of their environment and aren't evil; they are just doing what they know how to do due to the environment they grew up in etc. A lot of their problem lies in their insecurities and lack of appropriate social interaction. Being wealthy brings its own demons. I don't think enough time is spent talking about that aspect of things either. For example, simply being wealthy can make many people feel lonely. To fill that hole, many try very hard to fill it with more money. The problem is that in our EEA (environment of evolutionary adaptedness), such severe wealth differentials were not possible. Therefore, in a relatively short period of time (i.e. from when people first started using money and hoarding it), huge differentials in power (i.e. money differentials) have been able to occur with little time for humanity to evolve in response. In other words, we used to live in small tribes, were there was a certain degree of order, but that was also somewhat flexible or different members had different strengths. However, it is likely that not many people had the kinds of power over others that we see today. In addition, even those who were higher in the social hierarchy were still not ostracized from the group. Do to the flexibility and changeability of the power in these social hierarchies, people remained close, socially. This is not what we see today. Thus, the wealthy try to fill their social holes with money, snuffing those out beneath them. The only way to fix this problem is to bring the classes closer together; to get everyone interacting again. One of the ways to do this is to decrease the income differences we observe.
    Here is what I have a problem with

    1) the left constantly talking about a few hundred uber wealthy and using them as a model for punitive taxes being levied on EVERYONE in the top one or two percent.

    2) thinking that anyone who is wealthy someone cheated others. this sort of attitude is common on this board

    3) pretending that most wealthy people are wall street investment bankers rather than understanding that many of us are wealthy due to years and years of saving and sacrificing. Years of making conservative investments in solid blue chip companies. Years of not spending more than one takes in. Yet we are demonized as somehow merely being lucky or dishonest.

    4) and the most idiotic of all-envious people who pretend that they are "helping the wealthy" by taking money from them and the "evils that come from wealth". Cut the BS, that is absolute nonsense.

  3. #123
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    this is my view of taxing the 1-2%:
    The Future of The USA-flat-tax-gop-conservatives-republicans-traitors-politics-1323001593-jpg

  4. #124
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by roflpublican View Post
    this is my view of taxing the 1-2%:
    The Future of The USA-flat-tax-gop-conservatives-republicans-traitors-politics-1323001593-jpg
    I would advocate violent removal of office of any politician who advocates taxes over 50%

  5. #125
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I would advocate violent removal of office of any politician who advocates taxes over 50%
    providing we introduce a tax on 'money sitting idle in bank accounts, aka hoarding and keeping capital out of the economy' over a certain amount, i'd agree.

  6. #126
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by roflpublican View Post
    providing we introduce a tax on 'money sitting idle in bank accounts, aka hoarding and keeping capital out of the economy' over a certain amount, i'd agree.
    you don't seem to know much about the wealthy. the only reason why some people keep money in bank accounts because of the uncertainty of Obama tax policies. the way people like me increase our wealth is investing it in companies.

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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you don't seem to know much about the wealthy. the only reason why some people keep money in bank accounts because of the uncertainty of Obama tax policies. the way people like me increase our wealth is investing it in companies.
    obama's tax policies are the same as bush's tax policies =/. there has been no change to the tax code since he took office =/, minus obamacare.

  8. #128
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by roflpublican View Post
    obama's tax policies are the same as bush's tax policies =/. there has been no change to the tax code since he took office =/, minus obamacare.
    You know that is not true. You are basing it on what Obama had to do as an incumbent running again as to what he will do in the future based on what he wants to do and what he has promised to do

  9. #129
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    You know that is not true. You are basing it on what Obama had to do as an incumbent running again as to what he will do in the future based on what he wants to do and what he has promised to do
    the tax code hasnt changed under obama is not true? what he does in the future could be anything, he could ban all the guns, repeal posse comitas (spelling fail) and declare war on each and every citizen of america. but until he does,

    also before you say he hasnt promised to do any of those things:

    The Future of The USA-politifact_photos_10reasons-jpg

    but until he does them, or makes a move that has a chance of success to do them, they can't be considered reality yet.
    Last edited by roflpublican; 11-06-12 at 10:53 PM.

  10. #130
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Here is what I have a problem with
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    1) the left constantly talking about a few hundred uber wealthy and using them as a model for punitive taxes being levied on EVERYONE in the top one or two percent.
    OK, see below for how I believe the top 2% is defined:

    What is the income level of the top 2 percent of taxpayers?
    Answer:
    250000.00

    This answer changes every Tax Year. The answer for the Top 2% is difficult to interpolate as the IRS reports Top 1% and Top 5%, but not Top 2%, so one has to guestimate. The above answer of $250,000 is a pretty good guess.

    For 2010 - a year in a Great Depression The IRS reports:
    AGI
    Top 1% 380,354*

    Top 5% 159,619**
    Source: What is the income level of the top 2 percent of taxpayers

    So, I suppose we can assume 250,000 is the magical number. I imagine that to those (especially families) making 40,000 or less, that 250,000 or more seems like a lot of money. Of course this would depend on where the person is living etc. Lets just say that it is likely that no matter where one lives/works in the U.S. (with perhaps a few exceptions), those making 250,000 and above should be able to make their living and find a place to live, setting themselves up to live somewhere between extremely comfortably and just comfortably. Still, someone making 380,000 and up is even more comfortable. The point is that especially for those in the top 1% and for some, depending on where they live etc., in the top 2%.... if they were complaining about paying equal or even slightly higher percentages of income taxes than their poor countrymen... that may come off as a bit greedy. Especially considering the deplorable situations that some people have been brought up in. As I've mentioned in other posts, too much blame is placed on both the wealthy and the poor as being bad people. When in actuality, everyone is just trying to do what they think is best. If more people could open their hearts and be understanding to the plights of others, we would likely get places quicker.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    2) thinking that anyone who is wealthy someone cheated others. this sort of attitude is common on this board
    I hope that people don't think this. I know for me it is just the fact that it seem some people are so bent on not giving, that it can seem greedy at times. Lets put it this way... I wonder if some of the reasons that some of our social programs have been put in place is because in the past, the benevolence of the wealthy alone was likely not doing enough to allow for equality of opportunity.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    3) pretending that most wealthy people are wall street investment bankers rather than understanding that many of us are wealthy due to years and years of saving and sacrificing. Years of making conservative investments in solid blue chip companies. Years of not spending more than one takes in. Yet we are demonized as somehow merely being lucky or dishonest.
    I don't think anyone questions the hard work it takes to become wealthy or even comfortable. However, I believe it is pompous to believe that the wealthy and or comfortable have come as far as they have without being in a good position to do so. This does not negate the hard work, it just is to acknowledge that it is not only the operator that makes things happen; the environment needs to be right too.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    4) and the most idiotic of all-envious people who pretend that they are "helping the wealthy" by taking money from them and the "evils that come from wealth". Cut the BS, that is absolute nonsense.
    I not sure what you mean by this one.... ? Could you say more about this?

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