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Thread: The Future of The USA

  1. #91
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    Show me the proof with a quote please - please provide a list that says something else as well - otherwise you are just wasting everyone's time
    Like I said check your own source, its written on the page you linked.

  2. #92
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by celticwar17 View Post
    I was specifically saying our lack of good scores of test's is a culturally based thing. I talking our education system specifically. And I somewhat agree that it is possible to correct culturally based issues, but it is a very difficult feat that will take decades to do with the big possibility of not even working or working efficiently.
    Most culture is a way of dealing with the environment and options that are available to a group of people; education and religion also have an effect. Tackle as many of those areas as you can and you'll make progress. These are just a few ways of addressing the problem.

  3. #93
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    I agree, although a flat tax would cripple the working class
    The taxation isn't really the thing that does the crippling, but I can let this one go.

    I problem being complicated does not make it impossible to solve
    I will grant this as true, but warn you that to truly erase the disadvantage of being born into some families would require such extreme restrictions on liberty that no one would accept it (for example, loss of reproductive freedom).

    All the more reason to institute competition within the system by allowing people to choose different options.
    That's not the sort of competition that controls price while keeping quality up, because it's still being covered for them (no cost containment incentive).

    Is this how it works with athletes that are farmed? Why don't I just quote what someone else has said.
    Quote Originally Posted by PrometheusBound
    Pay people a salary to go to college or get other job training and you will develop your most talented instead of the useless rich kids and people afraid to grow up that you get in college now. By this full development of the most potentially productive human resources, you will create enough wealth to finance the best military and the most generous social services. No one offers us this option, yet they make sure they get the best athletic talent developed the same way, so they know how to get this done. The reason the rich parasites brainwash people that sucking your thumb in college, working without pay and living like a 15-year-old is an achievement to be proud of is that they, meaning the only people with power and influence in this country, gain all their wealth by turning superior talent into wimps who won't rebel against their employers stealing most of what they produce.
    Prometheus' response was the most asinine of any of them. You come up with the most financially nonviable notions anyone could ever dream of. Step One -- give people a bunch of money (whose money are we giving them, btw?). Step Two -- reap the reward of having created wealth for all. Unfathomably dumb.

    It seems to me that all we have to do is get health experts involved in the process and we should be on our way.
    Haha, they already are! They are unique in that their expertise is imperative to create the system, yet they also profit from the system. Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em.

    Lol, kinda had a feeling you'd say that. Why is it that so many people confuse true equality of opportunity with equality of outcome?
    There's no confusion. "True equality" has never existed and can never exist. The attempt to achieve it anyway is based on fantasy (even if Orwellian). You simply can't control all of everyone's independent choices, but you'd have to try if you were insistent on creating "true equality of outcome."

  4. #94
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Austin View Post
    Like I said check your own source, its written on the page you linked.
    Already checked; the date doesn't appear to be on that page - cute that you didn't quote it though aye?

    Also, all the comments to the list are from 2010... see the following:

    Blake Taylor says:
    November 29, 2010 at 9:16 pm

    France’s excellence in health care delivery is probably due to two major factors: 1) it is extraordinarily open and communicative with patients and families which reaps significant patient safety benefits; and 2) it has far more doctors per capita so physicians want patients and patients get a choice.
    World Health Organization’s Ranking of the World’s Health Systems | thepatientfactor.com

    Just waiting for you to actually give a quoted example - then please provide an updated one

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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    Already checked; the date doesn't appear to be on that page - cute that you didn't quote it though aye?
    Pay more attention & you'll find the answers.

    Just waiting for you to actually give a quoted example - then please provide an updated one
    Sorry, you may be used to your mother wiping your backside for you but Im not your mother.

    Why should I research YOUR claims for YOU?

  6. #96
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Your medical system is insanely expensive because you think profit matters more than life. Bad plan for ordinary people, not followed in civilized countries,

  7. #97
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    The taxation isn't really the thing that does the crippling, but I can let this one go.
    Good

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    I will grant this as true, but warn you that to truly erase the disadvantage of being born into some families would require such extreme restrictions on liberty that no one would accept it (for example, loss of reproductive freedom).
    That's a little apocalyptic isn't it? Why not think creatively... see some of my other posts on the subject


    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    That's not the sort of competition that controls price while keeping quality up, because it's still being covered for them (no cost containment incentive).
    If companies are making a certain amount of profit per patient, it makes logical sense that if they had more patients their profits would go up

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Prometheus' response was the most asinine of any of them. You come up with the most financially nonviable notions anyone could ever dream of. Step One -- give people a bunch of money (whose money are we giving them, btw?). Step Two -- reap the reward of having created wealth for all. Unfathomably dumb.
    If people and their talents are valuable like athletes are, why wouldn't it be a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Haha, they already are! They are unique in that their expertise is imperative to create the system, yet they also profit from the system. Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em.
    Perhaps we need to find independent and/or elected officials?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    There's no confusion. "True equality" has never existed and can never exist. The attempt to achieve it anyway is based on fantasy (even if Orwellian). You simply can't control all of everyone's independent choices, but you'd have to try if you were insistent on creating "true equality of outcome."
    Again, you've confused "true equality of opportunity" with "true equality of outcome".... how do you guys keep getting those ideas confused?

  8. #98
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Austin View Post
    Pay more attention & you'll find the answers.

    Sorry, you may be used to your mother wiping your backside for you but Im not your mother.

    Why should I research YOUR claims for YOU?
    Cop out answer if I've ever seen one; why don't you back up your claims... or do you not have any claims?

    And again, I gave evidence in the prior post that showed the likelihood of those numbers being up to date

    Are you ready to begin actual debating, or just continuing with non-productive poo flinging?

  9. #99
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by Penderyn View Post
    Your medical system is insanely expensive because you think profit matters more than life. Bad plan for ordinary people, not followed in civilized countries,
    This is not a bad point - profits are important, but not all important

  10. #100
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    Re: The Future of The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    That's a little apocalyptic isn't it? Why not think creatively... see some of my other posts on the subject
    It's a monumental task to purport to undertake (erasing the disadvantage of being born into an incompetent family). I do think creatively, but have to admit that the effective solutions are oppressive. I know about the horrors of the fetal alcohol spectrum, the impact of physical, emotional and sexual abuse, of growing up in a drug-abusing home, et cetera. I have thought creatively about how to stamp that out. "Providing education" doesn't do squat. You have to get serious if you really care to achieve that goal (erasing the disadvantage of being born to incompetents). Getting serious means getting oppressive.

    If companies are making a certain amount of profit per patient, it makes logical sense that if they had more patients their profits would go up
    I don't think you're understanding all the aspects of that issue, given how simply you're looking at it.

    If people and their talents are valuable like athletes are, why wouldn't it be a good thing?
    Absolutely, except that it's financially nonviable to pour resources into everyone when 0.00001% of them will become valuable to the degree that athletes are. The reason not everyone is successful has relatively little to do with being too dumb/uneducated, and a lot more to do with the supply of and demand for expert labor.

    Again, you've confused "true equality of opportunity" with "true equality of outcome".... how do you guys keep getting those ideas confused?
    Well apparently it's because you move the goalposts.

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    Option D
    Taxes are decided based on the amount needed to create equality of outcome.

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