View Poll Results: Which Party values the Middle Class More?

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    31 60.78%
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Thread: Which Party Values the Middle Class More?

  1. #41
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    Re: Which Party Values the Middle Class More?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonsa View Post
    What are you talking about? What fair chance did communism promise? I seems you are implying that the son is guilty for the sins of the father.
    considering that there are only four countries left that can be called communist (with china making all kinds of capitalist reforms) I think the world as a whole has recognized its failures and fallacies.
    That is Communism's main attraction imho. The idea that everybody is equal. And as far as the son being guilty of his father's sins. I think the title of his book is enlightening. "Dreams FROM my Father." Not "of," but "from." That means he's taken those dreams. He says as much in the text of the book. He has adopted those dreams and made them his own.

    And, despite the fact of Communism's obvious lack of success there are too many young people who think it's cool to be a Communist. The episode of Seinfeld where Elaine's new b/f is a Commie and she thinks it's chic. Or notice how many T-shirts you see with the image of Che Guevara. Or the lack of caring when Obama's mother and grandmother's and his associates (both pre and post Chicago days) Communist backgrounds are brought to light.

  2. #42
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    Re: Which Party Values the Middle Class More?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilogy View Post
    You have to also look at what the Right is doing and wanting to do. They say they don't want people dependent on the government, which is great, but at the same time they also don't want to broaden channels to weaning people off of entitlements: not wanting minimum wage increases (in fact, wanting wage decreases), wanting less support for public education, not wanting universal healthcare, all factors that in some way affect a person's financial livelihood. If people are criticized for being dependent on government, but also not given the proper access or the proper opportunity to actually uplift themselves, then obviously they won't. I mean, you can't expect people to become self-sufficient when they have almost no means of doing so.
    Minimum wage increases only starts a never ending spiral of rising incomes, BRIEFLY, then what quickly follows are price increases to the consumer which eventually requires another round of minimum wage increases in order for the low wage worker to aford to live. This is a common ploy by the Democrat Party and the unions they collude with.

    Educationally, the problem with our kids is not a lack of money. It's a lack of good judgment in how the public education funds are spent. And that is a direct function of a problem with the teachers union, which too often, places a higher priority on maintaining it's own power than on doing what's best for the kids.

    Free healthcare is a nice idea but it just doesn't work. It produces problems that most Amercans have shown they do not want.


    The idea of having something first in order to become self sufficient is an interestingbone to explore. In my twenties I was destitute and homeless for a while, refusing to apply for welfare, I recognize you need a shiwer and lean cvlothes and the means f producing a resume


    Healthcare is a nice thing but it just d
    Last edited by marsden; 11-02-12 at 06:19 PM.

  3. #43
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    Re: Which Party Values the Middle Class More?

    Please pardon my abbreviated posts as my keyboard isn't working well on my tablet and it makes accessing the top and the bottom of my entry field difficult to impossible at times.

  4. #44
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    Re: Which Party Values the Middle Class More?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    What the right either doesn't understand or likely simply doesn't want to admit is that the opportunity to become rich is meaningless, as the scarce nature of money makes becoming rich absolutely impossible for all but a very tiny percentage of "ALL classes", of all people everywhere, the dynamics of money and its system being what it truly is.
    This part is spot on. The rest of it is kind of silly.

    Quote Originally Posted by straykatz View Post
    I find it interesting how many toss the word communisn around like it is truly a threat to our American society.....and what's even more interesting is the people that buy into this theory.
    I think a lot of people confuse socialism and communism with fascist military dictatorships like the USSR and China.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    The Left needs the poor to remain poor, to retain their vote.
    I really have no idea how that would work in practicality. Are we presuming that the poor of this country are so stupid as to not realize whether or not their lot is improving? Or does this rely on the idea that socialized medicine makes people lazy because there's "no incentive to work" if you don't have to worry about being able to afford to get an x-ray for a sprained ankle?

    Why should we settle for voting for the lesser of two evils? Don't we deserve better than that? So no, I'm not voting, because both candidates tow their party lines while smearing their opposing party and lying to the fools who routinely vote them into office.
    Well, there's a lot of issues besides jobs and taxes. There's foreign issues like our relations with Iran and the possibilities of war, social freedoms like same sex marriage, which types of energy we will pursue, whether to focus on public or private education, or issues of free speech and civil liberties. There is really a big difference between the candidates.
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    Re: Which Party Values the Middle Class More?

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    The America we all know was built on the ideas of FDR and the "New Deal". That is what raised up the great middle class that made us the envy of the world.
    The right has spent the last 75 years trying to tear it down and replace it with the America of the 1900's, when workers got $2.00 a day and had to buy even a radio on credit.
    The Right will fail, just like Romney will. Ther is no stoppng progress only delaying it.
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  6. #46
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    Re: Which Party Values the Middle Class More?

    I won't see neither party cares about the Middle Class -- they care very much, because they need the votes of that demographic to win.

    But I would say neither cares enough to put the middle class over their respective core demographics.
    (avatar by Thomas Nast)

  7. #47
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    Re: Which Party Values the Middle Class More?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy
    What the right either doesn't understand or likely simply doesn't want to admit is that the opportunity to become rich is meaningless, as the scarce nature of money makes becoming rich absolutely impossible for all but a very tiny percentage of "ALL classes", of all people everywhere, the dynamics of money and its system being what it truly is.
    This part is spot on. The rest of it is kind of silly.


    Well, under your avatar it does say "socialist".

    So I can understand where you'll find my truthful assertion about the right acceptable ..

    .. But you'll have a wee bit of trouble with this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    Sadly, Obama does indeed want everybody to be equal, but not just everyone who is an American, but everyone throughout the world, including Americans, all lumped together, equally earning the same wage scale. In order to get there, Obama, a Multi-Cultural Internationalist, actually does want Americans to continue to lose jobs to in-sourcing to illegals and out-sourcing to wage-slaves in other countries. That will in effect import third-world poverty to American wage scales, and though that's part of Obama's dismantling of America to achieve his idealized one-world U.N nationless boundaryless government, it will indeed make every worker equal: impoverished.
    .. My equally truthful assertion about the left, the left being, of course, where socialists reside.
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  8. #48
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    Re: Which Party Values the Middle Class More?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post


    Well, under your avatar it does say "socialist".

    So I can understand where you'll find my truthful assertion about the right acceptable ..

    .. But you'll have a wee bit of trouble with this:
    .. My equally truthful assertion about the left, the left being, of course, where socialists reside.
    Your assertion that anyone in this country wants to weaken the US for the benefit of other nations just makes no sense. The idea that the president intentionally supports Americans being unemployed also makes no sense. Nobody wants the United States to more resemble a third world country. Not even the selfish business criminals who support the right. They just don't care about anyone else. But you attribute far too much intentional malice in your characterization of the left for it to be true.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  9. #49
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    Re: Which Party Values the Middle Class More?

    Quote Originally Posted by marsden View Post
    That is Communism's main attraction imho. The idea that everybody is equal. And as far as the son being guilty of his father's sins. I think the title of his book is enlightening. "Dreams FROM my Father." Not "of," but "from." That means he's taken those dreams. He says as much in the text of the book. He has adopted those dreams and made them his own.
    Have you actually read the book? do you actually know what the title refers to? this is nothing more than glennbeckian nonsense.

    Barack Obama
    This article provides a series of close readings of Barack Obama’s autobiography Dreams from My Father. It places the narrative within the history of African American literature and rhetoric and argues that Obama uses the text to create a life story that resonates with central concepts of African American selfhood and black male identity, including double consciousness, invisibility, and black nationalism. The article reads Dreams from My Father as an attempt to arrive at a state of “functional Blackness,” which moves away from questions of racial authenticity and identity politics but recognizes the narrative powers of African American literature to shape a convincing and appealing black self.



    And, despite the fact of Communism's obvious lack of success there are too many young people who think it's cool to be a Communist. The episode of Seinfeld where Elaine's new b/f is a Commie and she thinks it's chic. Or notice how many T-shirts you see with the image of Che Guevara. Or the lack of caring when Obama's mother and grandmother's and his associates (both pre and post Chicago days) Communist backgrounds are brought to light.
    oh please. Seinfeld? Che Guevara t-shirts (although I will bet big that 99.9% of the people wearing them have no clue that he was a murderous revolutionary basterd)?
    So, you have no problem with condemning the son for the sins of the mother? He associated with commies, so that makes him a commie?

    I associate with black people, does that make me a black person? I associate with jews does that make me a jew? I associate with conservatives, does that make me a conservative? (for the record, no, no, and no).
    My Karma ran over your Dogma.

  10. #50
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    Re: Which Party Values the Middle Class More?

    Quote Originally Posted by marsden View Post
    Minimum wage increases only starts a never ending spiral of rising incomes, BRIEFLY, then what quickly follows are price increases to the consumer which eventually requires another round of minimum wage increases in order for the low wage worker to aford to live. This is a common ploy by the Democrat Party and the unions they collude with.
    I'm pretty sure it's well known that minimum wage as it stands right now is too meager for the standard of living. So I guess we either increase wages or we somehow lower the standard of living. So what then do you suggest we do to level the playing field of opportunity so that "everyone has a chance to become rich"?

    Educationally, the problem with our kids is not a lack of money. It's a lack of good judgment in how the public education funds are spent. And that is a direct function of a problem with the teachers union, which too often, places a higher priority on maintaining it's own power than on doing what's best for the kids.
    I partly agree with this, but I think one of the main reasons the teacher's union does what it does is because teacher's are generally not paid as much as they probably should and the standards for becoming a teacher are probably not high enough, and that's sort of a product of both the union as well as schools and school boards.

    Free healthcare is a nice idea but it just doesn't work. It produces problems that most Amercans have shown they do not want.
    I suppose this is just where we differ then, because I see healthcare as a basic right, not a privilege. You're right though, it does produce problems most Americans do not want because most Americans already have healthcare.


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