- Joined
- Jul 20, 2005
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I could care less what a globalist find off-putting.
Well carry on then. :lol:
I could care less what a globalist find off-putting.
I don't think it's over-rated at all, as it is a subconscious attempt to maintain unity at some level, just as tribalism or family identity is. The only time it is a problem is when it is used to overtly and consciously cause objective harm to another nation without cause.
I think it can be harmful even when it isn't used to consciously harm another nation. For example, rooted in the idea of "American exceptionalism" (at least among SOME of its proponents) is the attitude that the United States is better than other nations. And I think when people adopt that attitude, it makes them less willing to look at the areas in which the US is comparatively weak, and the policies that other countries have successfully adopted.
Depends on the war and policies.For example if our country was attacked and you refused to join the military to defend us from that country regardless of your reason that would make you a disloyal unpatriotic piece of ****. If we decided to attack a country that was no threat to us and you refused to join the military the you wouldn't be a unpatriotic disloyal piece of ****.
I'm back.
Even though I haven't posted in over 2 years and like 99% of you don't even know/remember who I am, I decided to make my triumphant return with something that has been on my mind lately.
I genuinely feel that being a patriot is overrated and slowly becoming just blatantly obnoxious as time goes on. It's rooted in discrimination and crosses over into just pure jingoism at times. From things like screaming "USA! USA! USA!" as loud as you can to arguing about what nation is the best, it has become more and more clear to me that it's all just archaic and neanderthal-like garbage.
Maybe I'll elaborate later on, but I want your opinion and I'd like it if we could get a good discussion going about this. So what do you think?
"We have gone forth from our shores repeatedly over the last hundred years and we’ve done this as recently as the last year in Afghanistan and put wonderful young men and women at risk, many of whom have lost their lives, and we have asked for nothing except enough ground to bury them in, and otherwise we have returned home to seek our own, you know, to seek our own lives in peace, to live our own lives in peace. But there comes a time when soft power or talking with evil will not work where, unfortunately, hard power is the only thing that works."
Are Quakers "disloyal unpatriotic pieces of ****"? I went to a Quaker college and although I'm not a Quaker myself, I disagree with this comment.
What about those who refused to go to war in Iraq?
Hiding behind religion to weasel out of defending your country is a piece of **** thing to do.
It's not as if a Quakers refusal to go to war is a matter of convenience. Pacifism is pretty much the central tenet of Quakerism.
It's not as if a Quakers refusal to go to war is a matter of convenience. Pacifism is pretty much the central tenet of Quakerism.
Actually those two words practically synonymous with each other.
Patriotism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
: love for or devotion to one's country
Nationalism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
1
: loyalty and devotion to a nation; especially : a sense of national consciousness exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups
2
: a nationalist movement or government
Being that I'm not thoroughly knowledgeable on Quakerism, would they defend themselves if personally threatened, or are they pacifist to the point of martyrdom? Just curious. I can understand their stance on pacifism, as I tend toward that myself, but I am not pacifist when it comes to internal threats at all.
Then I assume they don't join the military? If they join the military and don't "go where they're sent," they're hypocrites.
It's not as if a Quakers refusal to go to war is a matter of convenience. Pacifism is pretty much the central tenet of Quakerism.
You remind me of a question my dad asked me:
"Maggie, who's the most important person in the world to you?" I thought a minute and answered, "My husband." He said: "Absolutely WRONG." The most important person in the world to you had better be YOU."
WTF?? "Why??"
"Because of you don't put yourself first...for the most part be good to yourself and look after your own self-interests ... you can't take care of those around you that you care about."
Reminds me of patriotism. Our own interests first. Only by being a strong nation can we help others. A strong economy, strong military and conscientious leaders in Washington. Whether we like it or we don't, our nation has and will continue to fight tyranny abroad and continues to stand between those who would do each other harm and those who would harm us.
USA! USA! USA!
####
One of my favorite all-time quotes, from Colin Powell:
From things like screaming "USA! USA! USA!" as loud as you can to arguing about what nation is the best, it has become more and more clear to me that it's all just archaic and neanderthal-like garbage.
Being that I'm not thoroughly knowledgeable on Quakerism, would they defend themselves if personally threatened, or are they pacifist to the point of martyrdom? Just curious. I can understand their stance on pacifism, as I tend toward that myself, but I am not pacifist when it comes to internal threats at all.
You remind me of a question my dad asked me:
"Maggie, who's the most important person in the world to you?" I thought a minute and answered, "My husband." He said: "Absolutely WRONG." The most important person in the world to you had better be YOU."
WTF?? "Why??"
"Because of you don't put yourself first...for the most part be good to yourself and look after your own self-interests ... you can't take care of those around you that you care about."
Reminds me of patriotism. Our own interests first. Only by being a strong nation can we help others. A strong economy, strong military and conscientious leaders in Washington. Whether we like it or we don't, our nation has and will continue to fight tyranny abroad and continues to stand between those who would do each other harm and those who would harm us.
USA! USA! USA!
####
One of my favorite all-time quotes, from Colin Powell:
Regardless if pacifism is brain washed into them or not is irrelevant to the fact it is a ****ty thing to sit back while your fellow countrymen are laying down their lives to defend the country while you go "but my religion says I must be a *****,so I can't fight".
I think you confuse patriotism with boorishness. Patriotism should be worn in one's heart, not on their sleeve.
I was thinking more under the assumption of what if there were a military draft.
And if a Quaker were to vocally denounce violence and war, would that make him or her unpatriotic?
I see. Well, there is allowance for conscientious objection even in times of a military draft. Those whose faith strongly objects to war/violence/etc. should be allowed to opt out, I think, if their pattern of living has shown that their faith is very important in their lives. JMVHO.
Let's face it. No Christian religion endorses going to war and killing people. (At least none that I know of...) Those who say, "I'm Catholic, I'm going to evade the draft," can go to hell. They're cowards.
Just to be clear, I'm not disagreeing with you here but merely playing devil's advocate. If you, and those around you, are the most important people in your life, why is patriotism generally valued more than state pride? Or county pride? Or community pride? Shouldn't you be most proud of your community/neighborhood first, since those are the people you generally interact and meet face-to-face with on a daily basis?