View Poll Results: Is patriotism overrated?

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  • Yes

    28 58.33%
  • No

    14 29.17%
  • Other (explain)

    6 12.50%
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Thread: Is patriotism overrated?

  1. #81
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Last Seen
    03-11-13 @ 05:39 AM
    Slightly Liberal

    Re: Is patriotism overrated?

    Yes, yes, yes, and yes! completely overated. We aren't the best in the world and I'd much rather take pride in the human race than the cluster**** melting pot, that is the USofA. Every race has contributed something to the US bar none. I think we should celebrate everyone not just our country.

  2. #82
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:18 PM

    Re: Is patriotism overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilogy View Post
    I'm back.

    Even though I haven't posted in over 2 years and like 99% of you don't even know/remember who I am, I decided to make my triumphant return with something that has been on my mind lately.

    I genuinely feel that being a patriot is overrated and slowly becoming just blatantly obnoxious as time goes on. It's rooted in discrimination and crosses over into just pure jingoism at times. From things like screaming "USA! USA! USA!" as loud as you can to arguing about what nation is the best, it has become more and more clear to me that it's all just archaic and neanderthal-like garbage.

    Maybe I'll elaborate later on, but I want your opinion and I'd like it if we could get a good discussion going about this. So what do you think?
    A lot of times patriotism is just a form of neo tribalism.
    Not to say it's always wrong, but personally, I don't feel the connection between all Americans and me, more than I do people of the South.
    We just don't have the same common interests.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  3. #83
    German guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Berlin, Germany
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:19 AM

    Re: Is patriotism overrated?

    As a German, I naturally have a special perspective on nationalism.

    Is supporting your country, fighting and killing for it, valuable as an end in itself? If it was, the Nazis would have been the best people on this planet ever. Were the SS soldiers who actually believed they are defending their country heroes, when they murdered Jews, Russians and other "enemies"? Obviously not.

    It's all about the values you believe in. When your country stands for just values, and fights a war for a just cause, then yes, people risking their lives to defend it are heroes. But defending it just for the sake of defending it, no matter what it stands for, does not make anybody a hero.

    In the German debate, some distinguished between "primary values" and "secondary values": Primary values are values like honesty, kindness, humaneness, empathy, fairness and justice, love -- things like that.

    Secondary values are things like obedience, boldness, punctuality, formal intelligence, things like that -- all values you can perfectly put to use to run an efficient death camp with. Without backup by primary values, these secondary values are worthless, dangerous even.

    Patriotism as an end in itself is dangerous. When anybody places value in patriotism, regardless of the values your country stands for, he does not only overrate it, but makes a fatal mistake. Simply supporting your collective no matter what it does and stands for, or even supporting your government no matter what it does, is authoritarian thinking. It's the opposite of freedom and the opposite of democratic standards.

    But there is nothing wrong with supporting a certain cause you consider just your country, government or collective engages in, and there is certainly nothing wrong with being proud of your achievements and the achievements your country you were part of made, in my book.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

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