View Poll Results: Is patriotism overrated?

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Thread: Is patriotism overrated?

  1. #71
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    Re: Is patriotism overrated?

    Simple. No.
    "Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals."
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  2. #72
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    Re: Is patriotism overrated?

    Its not the patriotism is overrated...its definition was changed over time. Patriotism became supporting the government instead of what it truly is which is support your country before your government. I know that may not make sense to some people, but there is nothing that is more patriotic than distrust of government. That is what America was founded on...distrust of government.

    That changed to "you must support this war because it is patriotic and if you don't then you don't support the troops and are not American"....that kind of rhetoric went around. People lost the real meaning of being a patriotic American, and it has nothing to do with flag waving.
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  3. #73
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    Re: Is patriotism overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Wow. See I think what we stand for is a voice of reason in a world filled with hatred and oppression. Our country is a voice for every people on earth who want freedom instead of servitude. An example, that with all our faults, we are ultimately the most free people in the world. That democracy works. A message to dictators around the world that we are watching. And a message that we will spend our money and our soldiers will shed blood to help their people and protect the United States of America.

    We make mistakes. Politics often gets in the way of ideals. But, in the end, we are the greatest nation on planet earth.
    I personally believe that sort of righteousness is often misplaced and misguided. Yes we make mistakes, but isn't there a point where the amount of mistakes we make sort of disqualifies us from making this claim that we're the "greatest"? I mean, you say that we're a voice of reason in a world filled with hatred and oppression, but look at how much hatred oppression still exists in the US to this day.

    I don't know, it's just, whenever I hear someone say something like "we are ultimately the most free people in the world" I can't help but cringe because of the realities of our situation as well as different cultural definitions of freedom.


  4. #74
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    Re: Is patriotism overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Wow. See I think what we stand for is a voice of reason in a world filled with hatred and oppression. Our country is a voice for every people on earth who want freedom instead of servitude. An example, that with all our faults, we are ultimately the most free people in the world. That democracy works. A message to dictators around the world that we are watching. And a message that we will spend our money and our soldiers will shed blood to help their people and protect the United States of America.

    We make mistakes. Politics often gets in the way of ideals. But, in the end, we are the greatest nation on planet earth.

    Yankee Doodle over and out.
    That's not actually true. We're in the top 20, but we've lost the top spot. That's the problem. We used to be on top, but it's very difficult for people to accept that it was our progressive actions, not our "America-ness" that got us there. Keep in mind, we're one of the few western nations that executes minors, we're way behind in equal rights for homosexuals, and we have a lot more racism than a lot of Europe. Did you know that we were one of the last western nations to abolish slavery? Most of South America abolished it before we did. And we had to fight a civil war in order to do that. If we hadn't, imagine how much longer we would have kept slavery in our nation.

    We really aren't the greatest nation on Earth. And no, it is not a betrayal of America to think that. It's a much greater betrayal to think it when it's not true, and stop striving to make this country a bastion of freedom. Canada is probably freer than we are.
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  5. #75
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    Re: Is patriotism overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    That's not actually true. We're in the top 20, but we've lost the top spot. That's the problem. We used to be on top, but it's very difficult for people to accept that it was our progressive actions, not our "America-ness" that got us there. Keep in mind, we're one of the few western nations that executes minors, we're way behind in equal rights for homosexuals, and we have a lot more racism than a lot of Europe. Did you know that we were one of the last western nations to abolish slavery? Most of South America abolished it before we did. And we had to fight a civil war in order to do that. If we hadn't, imagine how much longer we would have kept slavery in our nation.

    We really aren't the greatest nation on Earth. And no, it is not a betrayal of America to think that. It's a much greater betrayal to think it when it's not true, and stop striving to make this country a bastion of freedom. Canada is probably freer than we are.
    I don't doubt that much of what you've said is true.

    But still, I can't imagine anyone living a freer life than I have, though. When a little high school girl from a blue-collar-single-mom home can, without a college education, build a business that allows her to retire at 45? Not too many places one can do that, I don't believe.

    I've never gotten more than a traffic ticket...never had my freedom infringed on by the state or Federal governments...never been audited by the IRS. I regularly write letters to the Chicago Tribune criticizing my state and federal governments for their policies. Write letters to my representatives criticizing their votes. I'm free to travel pretty much anywhere in the world at the drop of a hat; sleep safely in my bed at night; have clean water; plenty to eat; enough discretionary money to do most anything I'd like. My gas and electric are cheaper than dirt. And there's no law on the books, Federal or State, that I've ever noticed restricts my freedom in any way. (Oh, okay, except for my local Building & Zoning Department). I do complain about my property taxes, but I probably wouldn't be human if I didn't do that. I'm not sure how you define freedom, but for me? All these things I've listed do it for me.

    I'm interested to know why you say Canadians have more freedom than we do. Freedom to do what?

    We're not perfect. We make mistakes. Our foreign policy sometimes does more harm than good, no doubt. But, no, I can't imagine a freer country than here in the states. Just can't.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  6. #76
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    Re: Is patriotism overrated?

    If you're curious, I define freedom two ways. First is political freedom, the ability to participate in the political process equally and without fear of recrimination. Second is social freedom, and that is the freedom to determine how your life will play out. It's the freedom to choose what you will learn, where you will live, what you will devote yourself to, who you will associate with, and all the choices that make us who we are. It is that freedom which many Americans do not have. Being trapped in poverty is one of the main things that keeps a person from that freedom. Bigotry and discrimination is another. You were fortunate, Maggie, to have that freedom. A lot of people in this country don't, and that is unacceptable to me.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  7. #77
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    Re: Is patriotism overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Actually those two words practically synonymous with each other.

    Patriotism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
    : love for or devotion to one's country

    Nationalism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
    1
    : loyalty and devotion to a nation; especially : a sense of national consciousness exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups
    2
    : a nationalist movement or government
    I don't think the two are synonymous at all. I am the former; I am not the latter.
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  8. #78
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    Re: Is patriotism overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfman24 View Post
    I am not sure this is going to come out right, but yes I think it is. In my mind a patriot is someone who does something FOR his country just not living here. You can love your country and obey its laws and enjoy its freedoms but does that make you a patriot. the minutemen were patriots and heros. Cops and fireman could be called heros. The soldiers and alot of other people.

    If you live here and love your country and are loyal to it and obey its laws, that makes you a citizen but not necessarily a patriot.
    Frankly, I consider the thousands of dollars I pay in taxes yearly, to be helping my country.
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  9. #79
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    Re: Is patriotism overrated?

    Especially when the two are mutually exclusive, I prefer to be a humanitarian over a patriot.

  10. #80
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    Re: Is patriotism overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Frankly, I consider the thousands of dollars I pay in taxes yearly, to be helping my country.
    Ok thats fine and i have no obection to that. But IMO it just does not qualify but that is JUST my opinion
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

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