View Poll Results: Is patriotism overrated?

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    28 58.33%
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    14 29.17%
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Thread: Is patriotism overrated?

  1. #21
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    Re: Is patriotism overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    No you can't, putting the interest of other countries above your own country is contradictory to love and devotion to your country.
    And this attitude is precisely why many of us find patriotism to be off-putting.
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  2. #22
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    Re: Is patriotism overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    No you can't, putting the interest of other countries above your own country is contradictory to love and devotion to your country.
    What if I said "I refuse to fight in a war that I don't believe in"? Or what if I spoke against the policies of my own government?

    That isn't putting the interests of my country above everyone else.

  3. #23
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    Re: Is patriotism overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    And this attitude is precisely why many of us find patriotism to be off-putting.
    I could care less what a globalist find off-putting.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  4. #24
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    Re: Is patriotism overrated?

    I don't think it's over-rated at all, as it is a subconscious attempt to maintain unity at some level, just as tribalism or family identity is. The only time it is a problem is when it is used to overtly and consciously cause objective harm to another nation without cause.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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  5. #25
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    Re: Is patriotism overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    What if I said "I refuse to fight in a war that I don't believe in"? Or what if I spoke against the policies of my own government?

    That isn't putting the interests of my country above everyone else.
    Depends on the war and policies.For example if our country was attacked and you refused to join the military to defend us from that country regardless of your reason that would make you a disloyal unpatriotic piece of ****. If we decided to attack a country that was no threat to us and you refused to join the military the you wouldn't be a unpatriotic disloyal piece of ****.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  6. #26
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    Re: Is patriotism overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I could care less what a globalist find off-putting.
    Well carry on then.
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  7. #27
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    Re: Is patriotism overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    I don't think it's over-rated at all, as it is a subconscious attempt to maintain unity at some level, just as tribalism or family identity is. The only time it is a problem is when it is used to overtly and consciously cause objective harm to another nation without cause.
    I think it can be harmful even when it isn't used to consciously harm another nation. For example, rooted in the idea of "American exceptionalism" (at least among SOME of its proponents) is the attitude that the United States is better than other nations. And I think when people adopt that attitude, it makes them less willing to look at the areas in which the US is comparatively weak, and the policies that other countries have successfully adopted.
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  8. #28
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    Re: Is patriotism overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I think it can be harmful even when it isn't used to consciously harm another nation. For example, rooted in the idea of "American exceptionalism" (at least among SOME of its proponents) is the attitude that the United States is better than other nations. And I think when people adopt that attitude, it makes them less willing to look at the areas in which the US is comparatively weak, and the policies that other countries have successfully adopted.
    Well, frankly, I think it's quite normal to think that your nation is better than other nations, at some level, as it is what you identify with, and there is no doubt that nations vary greatly.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

  9. #29
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    Re: Is patriotism overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Depends on the war and policies.For example if our country was attacked and you refused to join the military to defend us from that country regardless of your reason that would make you a disloyal unpatriotic piece of ****. If we decided to attack a country that was no threat to us and you refused to join the military the you wouldn't be a unpatriotic disloyal piece of ****.
    Are Quakers "disloyal unpatriotic pieces of ****"? I went to a Quaker college and although I'm not a Quaker myself, I disagree with this comment.

    What about those who refused to go to war in Iraq?

  10. #30
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    Re: Is patriotism overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilogy View Post
    I'm back.

    Even though I haven't posted in over 2 years and like 99% of you don't even know/remember who I am, I decided to make my triumphant return with something that has been on my mind lately.

    I genuinely feel that being a patriot is overrated and slowly becoming just blatantly obnoxious as time goes on. It's rooted in discrimination and crosses over into just pure jingoism at times. From things like screaming "USA! USA! USA!" as loud as you can to arguing about what nation is the best, it has become more and more clear to me that it's all just archaic and neanderthal-like garbage.

    Maybe I'll elaborate later on, but I want your opinion and I'd like it if we could get a good discussion going about this. So what do you think?
    You remind me of a question my dad asked me:

    "Maggie, who's the most important person in the world to you?" I thought a minute and answered, "My husband." He said: "Absolutely WRONG." The most important person in the world to you had better be YOU."

    WTF?? "Why??"

    "Because of you don't put yourself first...for the most part be good to yourself and look after your own self-interests ... you can't take care of those around you that you care about."

    Reminds me of patriotism. Our own interests first. Only by being a strong nation can we help others. A strong economy, strong military and conscientious leaders in Washington. Whether we like it or we don't, our nation has and will continue to fight tyranny abroad and continues to stand between those who would do each other harm and those who would harm us.

    USA! USA! USA!

    ####

    One of my favorite all-time quotes, from Colin Powell:

    "We have gone forth from our shores repeatedly over the last hundred years and we’ve done this as recently as the last year in Afghanistan and put wonderful young men and women at risk, many of whom have lost their lives, and we have asked for nothing except enough ground to bury them in, and otherwise we have returned home to seek our own, you know, to seek our own lives in peace, to live our own lives in peace. But there comes a time when soft power or talking with evil will not work where, unfortunately, hard power is the only thing that works."
    Last edited by MaggieD; 11-02-12 at 11:49 AM.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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