View Poll Results: Is patriotism overrated?

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Thread: Is patriotism overrated?

  1. #11
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    Re: Is patriotism overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    so your could care less if your elected officials have no loyalty to your country.
    I don't vote in absolutes. I normally just list out all the things I agree with and disagree with for each candidate. Whomever I agree with most in general gets my vote. I might not like their idea of patriotism and American exceptionalism, but at the end of the day, their job affects me in some way so I'll vote for the person who would do the most good based on my views.


  2. #12
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    Re: Is patriotism overrated?

    "A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." -- Edward Abbey

  3. #13
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    Re: Is patriotism overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilogy View Post
    I'm back.

    Even though I haven't posted in over 2 years and like 99% of you don't even know/remember who I am, I decided to make my triumphant return with something that has been on my mind lately.

    I genuinely feel that being a patriot is overrated and slowly becoming just blatantly obnoxious as time goes on. It's rooted in discrimination and crosses over into just pure jingoism at times. From things like screaming "USA! USA! USA!" as loud as you can to arguing about what nation is the best, it has become more and more clear to me that it's all just archaic and neanderthal-like garbage.

    Maybe I'll elaborate later on, but I want your opinion and I'd like it if we could get a good discussion going about this. So what do you think?

    I believe it may well be over rated, though probably not the way you think. My loyalaties are in this order highest to lowest. Myself, my familily, my immeadiate associates and friends, my communitie, my state, my country, then the rest of the world. Any of the lower that conflict with the higher get regulated to nonexistant. My loyalty is highest to those closest to me, less so the more distant. I believe in the concept of self sovereignty, I dont bend my knee, or encumber myself, to those I dont choose to. Civilization requires my consent to function with any sort of efficency, it must be benificial in some way for me to cooperate, if not then my consent will not be forth comming. My loyalty to country, which is essentially what patriotism and nationalism are, is contingent upon certain factors that it is benificial to me, and I trust to some degree the decision makers are not going to intinionally harm me or mine. I detemine if I trust these officials by how well they adhere to the Constitution. As they dont adhere to the Constitution currently, I dont trust them as far as I could throw a large bus or live adult elephant. Hense my loyalty to my country reflects the loyalty of the country to me, which there is none. As such I have no obligations to it. I only pretend to acceed to the demands of the state so as to make my life less stressfull. Push comes to shove though they will find that my familiy and I, more than live up to our namesakes, at great and absurdly confiscatory costs. We will not win end the end, but the governments final victory will be pyric at best. Sempre Fidelis, Sempre Liber.
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
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  4. #14
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    Re: Is patriotism overrated?

    Yes it's overrated, in most cases. I think it can be useful in a country with a long history of separatism, factionalism, or a country with multiple nationalities that don't even think of themselves as one "country." In those cases, it can help create a common identity and cement a "nation-state" mentality, which I think is helpful for keeping the peace. But in a country like the United States in which nearly everyone considers themselves "Americans," it tends to just lend itself to arrogance and/or warmongering. I generally dislike tribalism, whether it's the tribalism of countries, religions, political parties, or even sports/college teams.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 11-02-12 at 10:38 AM.
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  5. #15
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    Re: Is patriotism overrated?

    at our current point in societal evolution, patriotism is good, but it's not the global solution. if the world continues to "shrink" as it has in modern times, at some point national boundaries will become more detrimental than beneficial. at that point, we would be more patriotic to the planet as a whole than just a few thousand miles of it. my guess is that most of us won't live to see that happen, though.

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    Re: Is patriotism overrated?

    Patriotism is the greatest and most natural thing that one can aspire to. We need more of that and it is severely lacking in the world... especially in the world of governing.

    Patriotism and nationalism is what makes people want to be better. A politician who is a patriot will never lie, steal or cheat on his people. He will never betray or otherwise compromise his country and he will do everything he can to make his country a better place. Because he loves his country and puts it above all else.

    However, such an elegant form of patriotism needs elegant people. Morons will never be able to understand such a wonderful notion and will never be able to adhere to it in all its standards. Neither will greedy people or weak people. Those are the kinds of rednecks that go out shouting USA! USA! at a egghand game (what you call american football) before endulging in a few more beers and going home to beat their wives.

    Patriotism & nationalism are much like religion. Smart, intelligent people will benefit from it by taking the good out of it. Idiots will aspire to reach the lowest denominator and consider that adhering to it makes them part or entitled to respond to the greater whole(like the westboro baptist church or the yahveh's witnesses of religious life, morons who claim to love their country and do nothing to better it are their equivalent)... whilst madmen will use patriotism, nationalism or religion to justify their madness.

  7. #17
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    Re: Is patriotism overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilogy View Post
    ...it has become more and more clear to me that it's all just archaic and neanderthal-like
    Hand on heart I can truely say I have never met a patriotic neanderthal.

  8. #18
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    Re: Is patriotism overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Actually those two words practically synonymous with each other.

    Patriotism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
    : love for or devotion to one's country

    Nationalism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
    1
    : loyalty and devotion to a nation; especially : a sense of national consciousness exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups
    2
    : a nationalist movement or government
    I can have love and devotion to my country while not necessarily putting the interests of my country over the interests of everyone else, can't I?

  9. #19
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    Re: Is patriotism overrated?

    Patriotism can certainly be considered over rated if its used by sleezy politicians trying to get elected or sleezy groups and organizations to get donations....True sincere Patriotism is not only a credit to the American but to the country itself. If you could ask those that gave all for flag and country they would tell you the same thing and if you ask most that gave some you would get the same response. Thats why I choose Other.
    If your an american and not loyal to your country...well they should have firing squads for that...

  10. #20
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    Re: Is patriotism overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    I can have love and devotion to my country while not necessarily putting the interests of my country over the interests of everyone else, can't I?
    No you can't, putting the interest of other countries above your own country is contradictory to love and devotion to your country.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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