View Poll Results: What is our form of Government?

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  • Democracy

    2 5.88%
  • Oliarchy

    3 8.82%
  • Socialist

    2 5.88%
  • Representative Republic

    27 79.41%
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Thread: What form of Government was the US founded as?

  1. #31
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    Re: What form of Government was the US founded as?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    your correct, on the voting part ..........Madison says in the federalist papers only people who have property and pay taxes can vote......it does not mention race or gender.
    That's a meaningless distinction if only white men are allowed to own property.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  2. #32
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    Re: What form of Government was the US founded as?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    The US was founded as a Limited Republic. That is, a Republic where a limited selection of the population was allowed to be involved in the political process. Where the US has gone most wrong is by overly expanding the selection of the population that is allowed to be involved in politics.
    That, or we haven't tried hard enough to make people capable of governing themselves responsibly.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

    St. Benedict

  3. #33
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    Re: What form of Government was the US founded as?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    really? then tell me why the founders speak of republicanism, and not of democracy in the federalist papers.
    I just did, in the post you quoted. I am not going to draw a picture for you.

    why is the definition of republicanism.... different than democracy
    Because under most modern definitions and usage one is more specific than the other. I never said they were interchangeable. If you wanted to understand how the two words relate, you could. You don't want to. You find it threatening. I have no idea why, though. I suspect it may be some bizarre fixation.

    why is the word democracy of OUR GOVERNMENT no where in the founding documents, and no where in the federalist papers.......................but by the way...GOD IS MENTIONED IN EVERY STATE CONSTITUTION.
    The answer to this is the same answer as to your first question in this post.

    i find your not interested in truth.
    Your intellect is too unpolished to even begin to apprehend the truth. You have zero nuance, and haven't yet practiced creative synthesis and complex thinking for yourself. And the amazing thing is... you appear to think you are more informed than other people.
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

  4. #34
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    Re: What form of Government was the US founded as?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo View Post
    Simple question....
    Aristocratic Sexist Limited Republic.

    Basically you had to be a relatively wealthy white landing male owner to vote in a system where your fellow rich white land owning male representatives created law.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  5. #35
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    Re: What form of Government was the US founded as?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    Full citizens who have no vote as to their representation in a government can not be legitimately asked to obey the laws of that government. Disenfranchised people have no say in the social contract, so why should they obeys its edicts?
    For the PRIVILEGE of being allowed to stay and benefit from the society that the others have produced.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    That, or we haven't tried hard enough to make people capable of governing themselves responsibly.
    True in some regards. However it's also about who SHOULD be governing themselves as much as who CAN do it.

  6. #36
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    Re: What form of Government was the US founded as?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    For the PRIVILEGE of being allowed to stay and benefit from the society that the others have produced.
    Well I would suggest holding your breathe, and keeping it held until those people actually start feeling the privilege more deeply.
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

  7. #37
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    Re: What form of Government was the US founded as?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Reply to Ernst Barkman
    your correct, on the voting part ..........Madison says in the federalist papers only people who have property and pay taxes can vote......it does not mention race or gender.

    according too Madison, if people with no stake in our government ever get a vote, they will vote for those who promise them the most from the public trough, and take everything from those who have a stake, ....and bankruptcy follows.


    the last 3 words are mine."

    Exactly and since Citizens United says corporations are people the quote applies specifically to the Military/Industrial/Corporate oligarchy, "if people with no stake in our government ever get a vote, they will vote for those who promise them the most from the public trough, and take everything from those who have a stake." That is what I see as the result of the ruling because the Corporate people don't live and breathe, ergo don't need to be concerned about the environment, just financial considerations. Their money buys the "best politcians money can buy." The end result will be bankruptcy and that is a lovely legal maneuver to protect Corporations against liability. Yes indeedy, I don't think the Founding Fathers intended this.
    the founders intended that the government be limited, to 18 duties only, and since they have but 18, and no more power outside of those, government in not able to grant favors or bailouts or makes laws with benefit the rich and powerful or large corporations. government is decentralized, and lobbyist and those that seek things from government are out of luck, this is what keeps the elites, FROM ruling.

  8. #38
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    Re: What form of Government was the US founded as?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    I just did, in the post you quoted. I am not going to draw a picture for you.

    Because under most modern definitions and usage one is more specific than the other. I never said they were interchangeable. If you wanted to understand how the two words relate, you could. You don't want to. You find it threatening. I have no idea why, though. I suspect it may be some bizarre fixation.

    The answer to this is the same answer as to your first question in this post.

    Your intellect is too unpolished to even begin to apprehend the truth. You have zero nuance, and haven't yet practiced creative synthesis and complex thinking for yourself. And the amazing thing is... you appear to think you are more informed than other people.
    i can only direct you to federalist paper #39 and #43...it you cant glean information from that i am sorry for you.

  9. #39
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    Re: What form of Government was the US founded as?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    i can only direct you to federalist paper #39 and #43...it you cant glean information from that i am sorry for you.
    I have read them. What I have said above still stands. You needn't feel sorry for me. Keep trying, though.
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

  10. #40
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    Re: What form of Government was the US founded as?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    I have read them. What I have said above still stands. You needn't feel sorry for me. Keep trying, though.
    i know nothing of the founders will move you, because they are for limited government , no redistribution of wealth, absolute property rights, those kind of things you will never be for.

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