View Poll Results: What is our form of Government?

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  • Democracy

    2 5.88%
  • Oliarchy

    3 8.82%
  • Socialist

    2 5.88%
  • Representative Republic

    27 79.41%
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Thread: What form of Government was the US founded as?

  1. #21
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    Re: What form of Government was the US founded as?

    the u.s. is a republic of republics..........article 4 section 4 of the u.s. constitution

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    Re: What form of Government was the US founded as?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo View Post
    Tell me where in the founding docs it mentions "democracy". Democracy is where the majority rules. A Republic is where there is a law, and a limited government.

    No, Democracy is not where "the majority rules". Majority rule is a principle of democracy, but isn't necessary in all cases in a democracy. There are direct democracies in existence today where strict 'majority rule' certainly does not decide ALL matters. They can also limit the powers of the government, though politically it would be difficult to maintain this.

    True Republics are democracies, in most cases.

    If you want to have conversations about limited government, why not just start out with that conversation? Why do people make fools of themselves trying and failing to sound intelligent by having a ridiculous semantic debate?
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

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    Re: What form of Government was the US founded as?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    No. It was a Limited Republic, which is what it should still be. However, as we've opened the Right to Vote up to more and more groups of people, the quality of the voting pool has been greatly dilluted and that has done significant damage to the country as a whole.

    Full citizens who have no vote as to their representation in a government can not be legitimately asked to obey the laws of that government. Disenfranchised people have no say in the social contract, so why should they obeys its edicts?
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

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    Re: What form of Government was the US founded as?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo View Post
    Tell me where in the founding docs it mentions "democracy". Democracy is where the majority rules. A Republic is where there is a law, and a limited government.


    No, a republic is not necessarily limited government, its just a form of government without an inherited ruling class.

    The Soviet Union was a republic for instance. A republic in and of itself has no defined limitations other than that laid out in its constitution (if it has one).

    Republic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    REpublicanism on the other hand is something different and represents the politcal philosopy of the founding of America.
    Republicanism in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    My Karma ran over your Dogma.

  5. #25
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    Re: What form of Government was the US founded as?

    Reply to Ernst Barkman
    your correct, on the voting part ..........Madison says in the federalist papers only people who have property and pay taxes can vote......it does not mention race or gender.

    according too Madison, if people with no stake in our government ever get a vote, they will vote for those who promise them the most from the public trough, and take everything from those who have a stake, ....and bankruptcy follows.


    the last 3 words are mine."

    Exactly and since Citizens United says corporations are people the quote applies specifically to the Military/Industrial/Corporate oligarchy, "if people with no stake in our government ever get a vote, they will vote for those who promise them the most from the public trough, and take everything from those who have a stake." That is what I see as the result of the ruling because the Corporate people don't live and breathe, ergo don't need to be concerned about the environment, just financial considerations. Their money buys the "best politcians money can buy." The end result will be bankruptcy and that is a lovely legal maneuver to protect Corporations against liability. Yes indeedy, I don't think the Founding Fathers intended this.

  6. #26
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    Re: What form of Government was the US founded as?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    No, Democracy is not where "the majority rules". Majority rule is a principle of democracy, but isn't necessary in all cases in a democracy. There are direct democracies in existence today where strict 'majority rule' certainly does not decide ALL matters. They can also limit the powers of the government, though politically it would be difficult to maintain this.

    True Republics are democracies, in most cases.

    If you want to have conversations about limited government, why not just start out with that conversation? Why do people make fools of themselves trying and failing to sound intelligent by having a ridiculous semantic debate?

    i tell every to read more than just the constitution, read the federalist papers, the founders created republican government, not democratic government.

    federalist paper #39 "plan of conformity to republican principles"....not democratic principles.

    america is to practice republicanism...not democracy.

  7. #27
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    Re: What form of Government was the US founded as?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    i tell every to read more than just the constitution, read the federalist papers, the founders created republican government, not democratic government.

    federalist paper #39 "plan of conformity to republican principles"....not democratic principles.

    america is to practice republicanism...not democracy.
    To continue the ridiculous semantic debate:

    If they had written today, with today's definitions of the words, they would certainly have agreed that republics are forms of democracies, and would have readily stated such. They would instead have used more precise terms as we use them today to speak of the limited powers and government we would have had under their version of a republic.

    The Republic is still a republic today, though it is certainly different in character than it was.

    Cheese and RICE for god's sake... The Democratic-Republican party was started by Jefferson. This later became the Democratic Party. But the point is that certainly they understood that Democracy and Republicanism weren't mutually exclusive.

    And, oh for heaven's sake, I HAVE read more than The Constitution. Unbelievable, you are.
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

  8. #28
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    Re: What form of Government was the US founded as?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    To continue the ridiculous semantic debate:

    If they had written today, with today's definitions of the words, they would certainly have agreed that republics are forms of democracies, and would have readily stated such. They would instead have used more precise terms as we use them today to speak of the limited powers and government we would have had under their version of a republic.

    The Republic is still a republic today, though it is certainly different in character than it was.

    Cheese and RICE for god's sake... The Democratic-Republican party was started by Jefferson. This later became the Democratic Party. But the point is that certainly they understood that Democracy and Republicanism weren't mutually exclusive.

    And, oh for heaven's sake, I HAVE read more than The Constitution. Unbelievable, you are.
    really? then tell me why the founders speak of republicanism, and not of democracy in the federalist papers.

    why is the definition of republicanism.... different than democracy

    why is the word democracy of OUR GOVERNMENT no where in the founding documents, and no where in the federalist papers.......................but by the way...GOD IS MENTIONED IN EVERY STATE CONSTITUTION.

    i find your not interested in truth.

  9. #29
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    Re: What form of Government was the US founded as?

    Representative Republic.
    Our democtratic element is the election of our representatives, who then, well, represent us in our legislatures.
    This, kids, is why there's no right to vote for President.

  10. #30
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    Re: What form of Government was the US founded as?

    Quote Originally Posted by H. Lee White View Post
    Representative Republic.
    Our democtratic element is the election of our representatives, who then, well, represent us in our legislatures.
    This, kids, is why there's no right to vote for President.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=P...&v=ewJyuXSW5nA

    we have republican government ,not democratic government...in republican government you have representation also, and you vote.

    democracy does not have an electoral college.

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