View Poll Results: Have you ever lived in a socialist country?

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  • I am a citizen of a socialist country and like it

    4 14.81%
  • I have spent time in a socialist country and socialism is gravy

    2 7.41%
  • No, but I have a Che Guevara T-shirt

    3 11.11%
  • I have, and socialism is awful

    4 14.81%
  • I'm a red-blooded American, to hell with those pinko commies

    14 51.85%
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Thread: Have you ever lived in a socialist country?

  1. #131
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    Re: Have you ever lived in a socialist country?

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Different sources, different calculations. Tax Burden by Country - Country Ranks 2009 lists it at 47.5, but notice that "social security" is not included in that tax rate. If you add the 12% SS tax to income tax, you get total individual income tax rising to 59.5%. You are also leaving out the "solidarity surcharge".
    On the bottom line, you still come out of it with more money than you would if you had to pay from your income for a private health insurance, private pensions, private education for your children and savings for periods of unemployment. I bet that most Americans have a much lower net income, when you consider all these necessary private savings.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  2. #132
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    Re: Have you ever lived in a socialist country?

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    On the bottom line, you still come out of it with more money than you would if you had to pay from your income for a private health insurance, private pensions, private education for your children and savings for periods of unemployment. I bet that most Americans have a much lower net income, when you consider all these necessary private savings.
    That really depends on a lot of things including how well the goverment manages & invests the money it recieves, how cost effective & efficient its services are, how well the individual manages & invests his money, & how cost effective & efficient the services he pays for are.

  3. #133
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    Re: Have you ever lived in a socialist country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Austin View Post
    That really depends on a lot of things including how well the goverment manages & invests the money it recieves, how cost effective & efficient its services are, how well the individual manages & invests his money, & how cost effective & efficient the services he pays for are.
    Yes. And I'm the last person to say the American system doesn't have its advantages too. But in the end, I feel more comfortable with the German system.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  4. #134
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    Re: Have you ever lived in a socialist country?

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    I feel more comfortable with the German system.
    I think comfortable is a very good choice of words there. I think one of the selling points, for a lot of people, of social health care is that it's comfortable. You know what you're paying, you know what you're getting. It's easy. It's a very comfortable system.

    I can see the appeal to an individual. To be honest, whilst most of the political arguments, for & against often take a moral, or economic stance, I suspect comfort is probably a truer motivation for many on the social side of the argument (with other factors influencing too of course).

  5. #135
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    Re: Have you ever lived in a socialist country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Austin View Post
    I think comfortable is a very good choice of words there. I think one of the selling points, for a lot of people, of social health care is that it's comfortable. You know what you're paying, you know what you're getting. It's easy. It's a very comfortable system.

    I can see the appeal to an individual. To be honest, whilst most of the political arguments, for & against often take a moral, or economic stance, I suspect comfort is probably a truer motivation for many on the social side of the argument (with other factors influencing too of course).
    You are probably right.

    As for the German health insurance system, it's semi-private/semi-public: Unless you are entrepreneur, it is compulsory to have an insurance, but you can chose to either take a private insurance (which is rather expensive and covers various treatments the public insurance doesn't cover), or you get a public insurance by default, which covers only the basics.

    Many Germans complain about this "two class medicine", as people with public insurance often get worse treatment and worse doctors, and are more often required to spend more for extra payment, than those people with a private insurance. On the other side, the people with a private insurance not only get "luxury treatment" by doctors, but are often running the risk of being talked into many nice extra treatments that are covered by the insurance, but aren't really medically necessary (lack of efficiency). Doctors can make more money with private patients than with public patients.

    So the system here is far from perfect, but I think in international comparison, it's not bad after all.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  6. #136
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    Re: Have you ever lived in a socialist country?

    Quote Originally Posted by OnWisconsin View Post
    You do know that Communism is different from Socialism right?
    Yes, all communist are socialist, but not all socialist are communist. Some Socialist just don't want to go all the way to communism, however, socialism was theorized by Marx as a means of converting to Communism. Communist, when mapped out on a two dimensional scale, one left to right, the other Authoritarian to Libertarian (sorry guys, I didn't create it, so if you don't like the use of Libertarian to be the opposite of Authoritarian, please give another name for it) then the communist socialist would be left-Libertarian. However, the NAZI party of Germany was socialist also, but left-Authoritarian. Just like the left vs right, there are many socialist that fall between the two extremes of Authoritarianism and Libertarianism.

    Marx's theories are a map to move society from right to the left, often times relying on authoritarian methods, and after that is achieved, they then move society from Authoritarian to Libertarian on that scale.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

  7. #137
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    Re: Have you ever lived in a socialist country?

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    You are probably right.

    As for the German health insurance system, it's semi-private/semi-public: Unless you are entrepreneur, it is compulsory to have an insurance, but you can chose to either take a private insurance (which is rather expensive and covers various treatments the public insurance doesn't cover), or you get a public insurance by default, which covers only the basics.

    Many Germans complain about this "two class medicine", as people with public insurance often get worse treatment and worse doctors, and are more often required to spend more for extra payment, than those people with a private insurance. On the other side, the people with a private insurance not only get "luxury treatment" by doctors, but are often running the risk of being talked into many nice extra treatments that are covered by the insurance, but aren't really medically necessary (lack of efficiency). Doctors can make more money with private patients than with public patients.

    So the system here is far from perfect, but I think in international comparison, it's not bad after all.
    Sounds like Germany is moving towards a system we once had here. (Britain also, they made the news about their changes, Germany didn't). Once upon a time in America, there were "Free", Volunteer, Charity and Community hospitals/Clinics. They generally had a much lower quality of care than hospitals that took only insured and paying patients. (I say generally, because there were and are some Charity hospitals that were and are exceptional, St Jude's and Shriners come quickly to mind). However, many bitched and whined about the in-equality of care, laws got changed, our healthcare cost skyrocketed and our system became broken.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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