View Poll Results: Do you support this Gas price idea?

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  • Yes

    4 9.30%
  • No

    37 86.05%
  • Part of it, I will explain in a post.

    2 4.65%
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Thread: Idea to control gas prices and help conversion to electric cars.

  1. #81
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    Re: Idea to control gas prices and help conversion to electric cars.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    I think we agree completely that regulation really hods up the price of oil, so let's get past that. I also think that it is physically possible to make America oil independent, but the time it would take a while to exploit these resources would be quite long. I also doubt that the public would accept deregulation of offshore drilling after the BP disaster.
    I think the only thing we disagree on is the American opinon. The oil spill was a once in a generation thing and someone is going to pay criminally and civilly for that, I'd say we're probably split into a slight majority that wants the drilling, the reasoning behind that claim is that La. got hit the hardest and we are at about 85-90%(rough estimate) against the moratorium.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  2. #82
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    Re: Idea to control gas prices and help conversion to electric cars.

    Quote Originally Posted by waas View Post
    Look at it this way: High gas prices are terrible for individuals, but great for the economy.

    If you subscribe to peak oil, then you'll likely find the idea of a coming economic decline(due to the fall of the oil industry) valid. I find that high gas prices will force the implementation of an alternate infrastructure. And, well, the same is true about a lot; we'll be more ready to stop doing something if it's not working.
    I agree that high gas prices will force implementation of an alternate infrastructure. I disagree that the government should be causing those high gas prices. Let the market determine the most economical situation.
    TANSTAAFL

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  3. #83
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    Re: Idea to control gas prices and help conversion to electric cars.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I think the only thing we disagree on is the American opinon. The oil spill was a once in a generation thing and someone is going to pay criminally and civilly for that, I'd say we're probably split into a slight majority that wants the drilling, the reasoning behind that claim is that La. got hit the hardest and we are at about 85-90%(rough estimate) against the moratorium.
    You're probably right that future spills are unlikely. The conditions that caused the Deepwater Horizon spill were very unlikely, but look at Three Mile Island. No one received more radiation as a result of that partial meltdown than they would from a chest x-ray. Nuclear power is still far safer than coal, which releases toxic emissions and necessitates relatively dangerous mining, but the episode turned American opinion against nuclear power. No new plants have been built in this the country since then. If we are going to continue offshore drilling, it will be met with very heavy regulation. As much as you or I can talk about applying policies without concern for public opinion, policymakers do not have this luxury.
    "Doubleplusungood"

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  4. #84
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    Re: Idea to control gas prices and help conversion to electric cars.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    You're probably right that future spills are unlikely. The conditions that caused the Deepwater Horizon spill were very unlikely, but look at Three Mile Island. No one received more radiation as a result of that partial meltdown than they would from a chest x-ray. Nuclear power is still far safer than coal, which releases toxic emissions and necessitates relatively dangerous mining, but the episode turned American opinion against nuclear power. No new plants have been built in this the country since then. If we are going to continue offshore drilling, it will be met with very heavy regulation. As much as you or I can talk about applying policies without concern for public opinion, policymakers do not have this luxury.
    The media won the public perception battle with 3 Mile Island. It was a relatively benign event though it did obviously cause concerns. The thing with the oil spill is, like 3 Mile Island it was a big event that overshadows the constantly safe overall operations that go on, most of America hated the moratorium though which is what I go on.

    Couldn't tell you whether the moratorium was unpopular because of the unilateral executive action or because of the inanity of it but it didn't poll well. This tells me at least that the public perception is that oil is safe enough to explore and use as needed until we find a better solution. I think we should build more nuclear plants, explore options to get more power out of hydro, geothermal, increase grid efficiency, etc. but until these techs are viable we have to make what we have work at optimum levels.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  5. #85
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    Re: Idea to control gas prices and help conversion to electric cars.

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Taking money from the middle class to give it to rich oil tycoons is never good for the economy.
    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    I see, so by taking more money from the middle class, and then giving it to private companies, you're actually HELPING the middle class? Interesting theory.

    I know this comes down to personal preference, but I personally deplore redistributing wealth towards the rich.
    It does rather go against traditional socialism, doesn't it? It seems fair to describe it, in fact, as “reverse socialism”. And until the Obama administration, I very much doubt if anyone would have seriously proposed or supported such policies, though those on the left like to falsely accuse those on the right of that.

    But look what the Obama administration has really been doing, with all the bank bailouts, and automobile industry bailouts, and the “Cash for Clunkers” scam, and such. The true effect of all of these has been to redistribute wealth upward—to take wealth from those who have less of it, and give it to those who have more. I cannot imagine the logic that thinks this is a good idea, but whether it is good or bad, it's what Obama's policies have been, and it's set the stage for others who consider themselves to be in the leftist/Democratic/Socialist direction to propose and support similar policies.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  6. #86
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    Re: Idea to control gas prices and help conversion to electric cars.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    The media won the public perception battle with 3 Mile Island. It was a relatively benign event though it did obviously cause concerns. The thing with the oil spill is, like 3 Mile Island it was a big event that overshadows the constantly safe overall operations that go on, most of America hated the moratorium though which is what I go on.
    It is unfortunate, especially when you look at safety and environmental concerns from most other power sources. Nuclear's problems are generally not as bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Couldn't tell you whether the moratorium was unpopular because of the unilateral executive action or because of the inanity of it but it didn't poll well. This tells me at least that the public perception is that oil is safe enough to explore and use as needed until we find a better solution. I think we should build more nuclear plants, explore options to get more power out of hydro, geothermal, increase grid efficiency, etc. but until these techs are viable we have to make what we have work at optimum levels.
    I believe in solar and wind long-term, and more natural gas use in the short and medium term due to fracking. I'm skeptical of nuclear, because it requires huge subsidies as it is, and I don't see much of a political push in this country for more research. Solar and wind are not there yet, and I'm skeptical as hell in the ability of government subsidized green jobs schemes to do much other than raise energy prices. However, both technologies have a lot of potential in the coming decades. Energy storage and absorption are going to be key in making these technologies more efficient and worth developing. They then have to be made cheaper. I'm obviously not an expert on this, but I would be surprised if either one breaks through for anytime soon.
    "Doubleplusungood"

    George Orwell

  7. #87
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    Re: Idea to control gas prices and help conversion to electric cars.

    Quote Originally Posted by 274ina View Post
    Issue each citizen a card good for there share of domestic gas....
    Their share?
    Determined by whom? How?

  8. #88
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    Re: Idea to control gas prices and help conversion to electric cars.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Heaven forbid I should confuse a medicinal patent with "patent medicine" which you should have put in quotes BTW. Patent medicines aren't all illegal, the difference is they don't fall under FDA laws because they aren't licensed, the only one's illegal had either 1) Harmful side effects shown in a lab or 2) A component which was already an illegal substance such as cocaine, heroine, etc.

    Anyway. Fraud is illegal, but this has nothing to do with your idea or argument. You are asserting that commerce is harmful because it shows a profit component which shows a lack of fundamental economic understanding, then you are appealing to things that government has a legitimate right to hinder such as fraud and other harmful activities. I understand, you don't like something so you want to play an equation that genralizes but it isn't applicable.

    EDIT - The health law compels policies to be purchased and the price went up. 20$ a month is not gonna happen, more like a 120$ policy just became 300$.
    Wrong agian.

    There is a cap on the price you pay for HC policys. read the bill. HR 3590

    2 % of pay to 9.5% of pay for those covered by employers....................mine will be capped at 2% of my pay.

    1401 36b section.............HR 3590 (ACA)

    "‘‘(ii) SPECIAL RULE FOR TAXPAYERS
    7 UNDER 133 PERCENT OF POVERTY LINE.—If
    8 a taxpayer’s household income for the tax9
    able year is in excess of 100 percent, but not
    10 more than 133 percent, of the poverty line
    11 for a family of the size involved, the tax
    payer’s applicable percentage shall be 2 per
    cent."

  9. #89
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    Re: Idea to control gas prices and help conversion to electric cars.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    I don't really understand why the US supply has to be separate from global supply. What would this do besides massively distort the market and satisfy some economically-clueless protectionists? US supply is not nearly high enough to meet demand. We simply do not have enough oil. The price would shoot up if not for price controls. These controls would only create a shortage. Prices are not simply determinants for how many ivory back-scratchers corporate fat-cats can buy. They are critical in determining how resources can be used most efficiently in an economy. When the government sets prices, it creates shortages or gluts, and resources are misallocated. Price controls lead to rationing. The rationing would fail, because people could simply buy and sell points. So you you would be replicating the old, evil market, except now it's less efficient. You create a bunch exemptions, but this only invites people to get past your scheme or make it not work, so that we have the same problems as before, except for the loss in efficiency caused by people getting around your scheme. Sorry, 247, but this is a terrible idea that simply piles one misunderstanding of basic economics onto another. I suggest you read up before you talk about the "Evils of Free Trade".
    its has to be seperate because of currency manipulation that allows the UE (for one) to buy oil cheap and screw the USA simply because of the currency ratio.

    How about you read like I have......

    The wolf finally came
    free trade doesnt work
    The great wave
    Punching out
    For starters. Then you might wake up from the GOP fantasy land you live in.

    Notice all those ex-middle class you ignore that are homeless........
    they are the key to your and the GOP down fall.......................
    Last edited by 274ina; 10-26-12 at 05:23 PM.

  10. #90
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    Re: Idea to control gas prices and help conversion to electric cars.

    Quote Originally Posted by H. Lee White View Post
    Their share?
    Determined by whom? How?
    Determined by USA gas/diesel/premium production each year.

    If you use more than that, you have to buy others points, or pay world price.

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