View Poll Results: Keep Electoral College or have direct elections?

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  • The Electoral College works, keep it.

    46 42.99%
  • The presidency should be determined by direct national vote.

    49 45.79%
  • IDK/Other

    12 11.21%
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Thread: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

  1. #81
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    re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Why do you insist on the campaign ads? North Dakota was a potential swing state and both Hillary and Obama campaigned hard here during the primary season with that in mind. After the primary season the same effort continued with the DNC campaign lasting until September when it was finally clear that a potential swing state moment was not to come to fruition-but it was close enough to make the entire DNC think so!
    Campaign ads are a tangible measure of resources dedicated to given a state. Saying that Hillary and Obama campaigned in North Dakota is nice, but provides no useful basis for comparison. They both campaigned in California as well, but California is an obvious example of state that is spurned by the electoral college. The ad money reflects that lower priority at around 20 cents per person.

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    re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    In today's media and information age a candidate doesn't need to travel to a particular locale to get their message heard. Everybody everywhere can hear it just fine. What campaigning and the constant pep rallies do is whip up emotion for the relative few who might remain undecided. Here's pretty much how the pep rallies go...

    I will strengthen America and bring jobs to your state. <yaaayyyy!!!>
    That other candidate will crash the economy and make you all serfs. <boooooooo!!!>
    I believe in America! <yaaaayyyyy!!!!>

    Blah blah blah. And some people actually eat that stuff up.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  3. #83
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    re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    The electoral college wont go away any time soon sadly. Problem is that is highly favourable to the GOP and with the gerrymandering of rules they can see that if they do it "right" then they will be able to easier win elections in the future, despite the majority of the population not voting for them.

    Also it gives far far more power to individual states and often low population states than to states where people actually live. As it stands now, something like 12 counties, not states, will make or break the 2012 election...
    PeteEU

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    re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    We should keep the electoral college. I do not like the idea of New York,California and a handful of other densely populated states being able to screw the rest of the country.This is why our forefathers went with the electoral college.
    I never understood this argument, because it works the other way too: Like it is now, the small, sparsely populated states and their countryside voters "screw" the rest of the country (especially those living in the larger cities).
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  5. #85
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    re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by H. Lee White View Post
    Good news :
    In the current system, every vote cast by the general public counts exactly the same: Exactly zero.
    While that's technically true, in practice the electors no longer decide for themselves who to cast their votes for. They vote for the candidate they've been chosen to vote for. Meaning that the votes cast by the general public do indeed count, since winning gets you that state's electors, who will vote for who they're told to vote for. And the votes of people in small states count for more than the people in large ones.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  6. #86
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    re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    I am not American, so it's definitely not up to me to decide this or to tell Americans how they are supposed to organize their elections.

    But if I were American, I would probably prefer a system similar to that in France: Skip the EC and have two turns of Presidential elections. In the first turn, all candidates from both sides are running (which would replace the primaries). Then, the two best from the first turn run against each other in the second turn of the elections.

    This system would also make sure that the votes for third party candidates are not "lost".
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  7. #87
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    re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    It's called runoff voting.

  8. #88
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    re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    The electoral college allows for minority rule. I think it should be disbanded.

    These 2 videos can explain it all better than I would care to.




  9. #89
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    re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Going from Electoral College to Direct Democracy just exchanges one set of concerns for another. For our two party system (which is all it really is these days) it changes the political strategy from key swing states to key voting groups in core areas of population density. Technically it is possible for majority popular vote to lose out to Electoral College, and that has a concern I agree.

    However the underline real problem we face regardless of method to elect is people voting themselves money from the treasury or less contribution to in tax. If you conclude that we are at a point now where political party ideology really comes down to vote buying by either a promise of more from the treasury or less contribution to then you have to conclude that going from the Electoral College system to a Direct Democracy could very well exacerbate the problem. It would turn the politics of elections to a flat out appeal to 50% + 1 based upon who's votes were purchased one way or the other. If we ever got to a point where just over 50% of the population existed off government (either through job, or social safety net, just support the idea, etc.) then that would truly end the republic.

    Now I am not so sure that we are not there anyway with an Electoral College mashed with today's political climate, but would a direct Democracy speed up the process placing the US on a path to say Greece, or Spain in terms of fiscal demands of the public who also cannot seem to fill the demand through tax? You could argue well that we are there anyway sitting on $1 Trillion in new debt each year going forward for a while. Not intended to derail the thread but simply add into the conversation what I believe is our core problem in electing at the federal level.

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    re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Discussing the Electoral College in the context of how much campaign money spent in each state is the most irrelevant argument against.

    Also, saying that a state "always" votes one way or the other is short sighted. A state voting the same way 5 elections in a row doesn't mean "always."

    I'm against full direct popular vote and it isn't happening anyway because the Constitution would have to be changed. Also, a recount could be a major fiasco.

    The effort to block vote states is a horrible idea. A majority of the citizens in one state could vote for candidate A while the block forces an electoral vote for Candidate B.

    What is done in Maine and Nebraska is a very legitimate alternative and Constitutionally valid. Here in PA, the republicans brought it up in the State House, but the Democrats shut it down. They didn't want Obama possibly losing electoral votes with some districts likely voting for the R candidate.

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