View Poll Results: Keep Electoral College or have direct elections?

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Thread: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

  1. #301
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    Re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by PrometheusBound View Post
    For the country to survive the 21st Century the government must follow the people, not a dead letter from the 18th Century. The Constitution did not establish a limited government except in the sense a government limited to a few people (oligarchy, which degenerates into a plutocracy and a hereditary aristocracy), excluding the vast majority of them and creating a growing dictatorship over them. The wannabe aristocrats who wrote this absolute law made it so vague that it could mean anything they wanted it to mean. But the people, who bear the brunt of the sneering decisions made by sheltered oligarchs, know what the laws enabled by the Constitution mean in real life terms. So the people should rule themselves according to what they can see happening as the result of laws made by those who don't have to suffer the consequences of their own isolated and ignorant legislation.

    so what your saying to me is:

    it does not matter what the men who founded this union said or did.

    it does not matter if they tell us, it is limited government , or whatever the principles republican government are.

    government should be free to act at will, and do anything they wish, or as they see it., because the constitution is a worn out old document which means noting in these times.

    we must free ourselves of this document and create our own world and the government too govern us, and close the book on those old faded dried up men, who gave us a start.

    well i don't agree!

    and your argument is a failure, you asked me to provide proof and i provided it, and YOU ignored it and switched, your topic....nice try, but its will not work.

    republican government now, and republican government forever....or america is doomed to the dustbin of history...........and i can see the opening of it wider and wider every day.

  2. #302
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    Re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    Second verse, same as the first.

    somewhere PrometheusBound copied and pasted this line from someone who does not like the constitution.

    and its shame, because most people don't even know its truth.

  3. #303
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    Re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    since you want too post things...so will i.

    article 4 section 4 of the u.s. constitution

    "The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a ---->Republican Form of Government<-----, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

    democracy is a democratic form of government...the u.s. cannot legally be a democracy.

    FEDERALIST PAPER #39 – "Conformity of the Plan to ->Republican Principles"......................NOT democratic principles.

    federalist paper #43 -To the second question it may be answered, that if the general government should interpose by virtue of this constitutional authority, it will be, of course, bound to pursue the authority. But the authority extends no further than to a guaranty of a republican form of government, which supposes a pre-existing government of the form which is to be guaranteed. As long, therefore, as the existing republican forms are continued by the States, they are guaranteed by the federal Constitution. Whenever the States may choose to substitute other republican forms, they have a right to do so, and to claim the federal guaranty for the latter. The only restriction imposed on them is, that they shall not exchange republican for anti-republican Constitutions; a restriction which, it is presumed, will hardly be considered as a grievance.

    Madison also says, that every state (must be republican)...IF the state is changed from republican to anything other than republican through peaceful means of the people, then that state must LEAVE THE UNION, IF the state is changed from a republican form to anything other than republican , by force, meaning a group of people take over the government, when the union, must use its power to RETURN it too republican government.
    Sigh.... Republican Government is exactly the same as saying a Representative Democracy. Both terms have the exact same definition the only difference being that Republican Government is the Antiqued way of stating the exact same thing.

    Ok give me the definition of a Republican Government as stated by the founders?

  4. #304
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    Re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    continued from above!

    most of the things people think they know about our founders government is wrong, and its takes reading of the constitution the federalist papers and the founders letters themselves to discover the truth.

    how many times have we been told Jefferson was a desist?..well its wrong.

    Jefferson says our natural rights come from the KING OF KINGS......and that is Jesus...you can find this information in Jefferson personal writings, i am reading the 1904 printed version.
    Sounds like a conspiracy. And I dont care what religious beliefs that Jefferson had or did not have, but one thing is for sure you did not know the man any better than I knew the man.

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    Re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Our founding fathers, in their infinite wisdom, wished to avoid rule by mob, which essentially what eliminating the electoral vote would do.

    I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. Voltaire

    When you make your peace with authority, you become an authority.- Jim Morrison

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    Re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Sigh.... Republican Government is exactly the same as saying a Representative Democracy. Both terms have the exact same definition the only difference being that Republican Government is the Antiqued way of stating the exact same thing.

    Ok give me the definition of a Republican Government as stated by the founders?
    both government are close to one another. but here is the difference.

    democracy, is rights endowed by the people on themselves, and they can create any right or law.

    this means they can violate the rights of other people if the wish, because it is majority rule, there are no boundaries.

    and people elect their representatives directly, and with democracy, the executive branch, and the legislative branch are usually (1) entity.


    republican government rights are endowed by the creator, and government or the people, cannot create more rights or repeal rights.

    republican government has people elected directly by the people, and has those people elected by people....... elect other people to office your (senator) who looked out for the welfare of the state, and republican government has 3 branches, each separate, and each has it own power and cannot interfere with the powers of the other, states also have 3 branches....governor, legislative and state supreme court.

    federal......the people get their representation in the house of representatives, and STATE legislators get their representation from the senate....this is the "Connecticut compromise" and prevents the power of the federal government from passing laws on the states, without there approval.

    in republican government .."rights of the people are not able to be voted on"...in other words, your speech or YOUR PROPERTY CANNOT BE VOTED ON, property rights are an absolute, and government has not authority to tell you how to run your property..........democracy ..rights can be voted on by the majority, and taken away by the people/government.

    republican government protects the rights of the minority from the majority.


    this is a brief statement.

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    Re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Sounds like a conspiracy. And I dont care what religious beliefs that Jefferson had or did not have, but one thing is for sure you did not know the man any better than I knew the man.
    that is not my point!....my point is many many people say , he was a desist, and believed only in a god of the universe.

    his own letter, proves he believed in Jesus ,which he was christian, and even attended church.

    so the stories people tell are mostly wrong, you have too seek truth yourself, in the founders, and what they say...not what others say...don't even listen too me, i ask you to search for yourself.

    example...many people say the 3/5 clause was racist........it has nothing to do with race...its about power, and power of government only.

    an example, the president is not the commander in chief. unless congress says he is....Madison says...he can ask congress to be commander in chief, or congress can call him into service and make him commander in chief.

    the founders did not want the military at the president's beckon call...that is dangerous to the people.

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    Re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    both government are close to one another. but here is the difference.

    democracy, is rights endowed by the people on themselves, and they can create any right or law.

    this means they can violate the rights of other people if the wish, because it is majority rule, there are no boundaries.

    and people elect their representatives directly, and with democracy, the executive branch, and the legislative branch are usually (1) entity.


    republican government rights are endowed by the creator, and government or the people, cannot create more rights or repeal rights.

    republican government has people elected directly by the people, and has those people elected by people....... elect other people to office your (senator) who looked out for the welfare of the state, and republican government has 3 branches, each separate, and each has it own power and cannot interfere with the powers of the other, states also have 3 branches....governor, legislative and state supreme court.

    federal......the people get their representation in the house of representatives, and STATE legislators get their representation from the senate....this is the "Connecticut compromise" and prevents the power of the federal government from passing laws on the states, without there approval.

    in republican government .."rights of the people are not able to be voted on"...in other words, your speech or YOUR PROPERTY CANNOT BE VOTED ON, property rights are an absolute, and government has not authority to tell you how to run your property..........democracy ..rights can be voted on by the majority, and taken away by the people/government.

    republican government protects the rights of the minority from the majority.


    this is a brief statement.
    You are still talking about Democracy as opposed to Representative Democracy. Please learn the difference. Representative democracy legal definition of Representative democracy. Representative democracy synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

    REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY. A form of government where the powers of the sovereignty are delegated to a body of men, elected from time to time, who exercise them for the benefit of the whole nation. 1 Bouv. Inst. n. 31.

    A Law Dictionary, Adapted to the Constitution and Laws of the United States. By John Bouvier. Published 1856.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bouvier


    And whats this bull about rights are endowed by some mysterious creator? Are you saying that the only rights that individuals have are religious in nature?

  9. #309
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    Re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    that is not my point!....my point is many many people say , he was a desist, and believed only in a god of the universe.

    his own letter, proves he believed in Jesus ,which he was christian, and even attended church.

    so the stories people tell are mostly wrong, you have too seek truth yourself, in the founders, and what they say...not what others say...don't even listen too me, i ask you to search for yourself.

    example...many people say the 3/5 clause was racist........it has nothing to do with race...its about power, and power of government only.

    an example, the president is not the commander in chief. unless congress says he is....Madison says...he can ask congress to be commander in chief, or congress can call him into service and make him commander in chief.

    the founders did not want the military at the president's beckon call...that is dangerous to the people.
    Face it though it does not matter what belief any person has unless those beliefs harm someone else. Historically though it is interesting what someone believes but that is all, and even if there was ample proof of Jefferson being a Christian why does such a thing matter? I will tell you why it doesnt mean anything. It is because of a Constitutional right that all Americans have, and that is Freedom of Religion. It makes absolutely no sense to believe that there is no separation between church and state.

    We cannot be a Christian nation while there is such a thing as freedom of religion. SO it is obvious what your point is then, it is to make it appear that we have no Constitutional rights so that there is no freedom of religion and therefore no wall separating government from religion. So your mission is nothing more than an attempt to force religion onto all Americans.

    I bet you think that no one noticed and youll probably even dny the whole thing as well. Bu that will leave you with no point in your claims.

    Please come up with a good retort something better than the usual line where this is headed, yes I have been here before. And frankly the others before you did a better job. Your play.

  10. #310
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    Re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Face it though it does not matter what belief any person has unless those beliefs harm someone else. Historically though it is interesting what someone believes but that is all, and even if there was ample proof of Jefferson being a Christian why does such a thing matter? I will tell you why it doesnt mean anything. It is because of a Constitutional right that all Americans have, and that is Freedom of Religion. It makes absolutely no sense to believe that there is no separation between church and state.

    We cannot be a Christian nation while there is such a thing as freedom of religion. SO it is obvious what your point is then, it is to make it appear that we have no Constitutional rights so that there is no freedom of religion and therefore no wall separating government from religion. So your mission is nothing more than an attempt to force religion onto all Americans.

    I bet you think that no one noticed and youll probably even dny the whole thing as well. Bu that will leave you with no point in your claims.

    Please come up with a good retort something better than the usual line where this is headed, yes I have been here before. And frankly the others before you did a better job. Your play.
    there are no constitutional rights, the constitution does not grant you rights, they only affirm what you are born, with..natural rights.

    civil rights, human rights, gay rights, minority rights, there are rights created by man, and are not American.

    my discussion has nothing to do with religion, i only stated that people say things, people or government, the the founding documents, ..i say, don't listen too it, go and seek the truth , from the founders yourself, because most people are ignorant of government and its true workings.

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