View Poll Results: Keep Electoral College or have direct elections?

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Thread: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

  1. #291
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    Re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Good. Its about time. Here is what I say: what you are doing is attempting to build a strawman and use it as some sort of standard. Screw your strawman. I don't need it.
    Strawman? I don't think so.

    You believe it is acceptable to undermine or encroach upon the life and property of others. You have clearly demonstrated this proclivity in your many posts here on DP. For example, you wish to restrict the types of firearms that may be owned by American citizens.

    Sometimes looking in the mirror is painful, but please remember that it is not the fault of the mirror. If you don't like what you see, perhaps you should make some changes in your ethical stance and political philosophy.

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    Re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Are you honestly asking me a question and you somehow someway expect me to supply you with the answer as to why the Supreme Court or Congress or anyone else other than myself uses a word?
    you are saying i am out of step, because i DO NOT believe the way, members of the USSC and members of congress believe.

    so your saying i am wrong, because you asserting they know more, and are better educated on the subject of the constitution.

    i am simply saying, they refer too the union as a country...which it is not...they refer too it as a democracy ....which it is not, they say we practice democratic principles, .....which we do not.

    since i KNOW WHAT I HAVE STATED IS RIGHT, BECAUSE I AM QUOTING MADISON.........and when its comes too the constitution , MADISON IS GOD!

    how can you say i am the one out of step, since i use Madison as my reason and my guide?????...............its simple, you and the others are out of step, and my foot work is prefect.

    because you have nothing too show i am wrong in my words, all you have is denials....which is no evidence......buy only argument, which your falls flat!
    Last edited by Master PO; 10-29-12 at 05:34 PM.

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    Re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    And which ones issue rulings on what passes muster when compared to the Constitution and their opinion is accepted as legal?

    since you seem too have an answer to other government questions......why but you think they , people of the court say things which are incorrect, since they should know the law better than anyone?


    and may i remind you, if you don't know, "Madison and Hamilton, say no law is constitutional, if the people say isn't"

  4. #294
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    Re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    since you seem too have an answer to other government questions......why but you think they , people of the court say things which are incorrect, since they should know the law better than anyone?


    and may i remind you, if you don't know, "Madison and Hamilton, say no law is constitutional, if the people say isn't"
    "they refer too it as a democracy ....which it is not, they say we practice democratic principles, .....which we do not."


    I think that you are confusing direct democracy with other forms of democracy. For example in the US we have Representative Democracy/Republic


    Perhaps you have not yet reached this far in your readings yet? Federalist No. 10 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "A pure democracy can admit no cure for the mischiefs of faction. A common passion or interest will be felt by a majority, and there is nothing to check the inducements to sacrifice the weaker party. Hence it is, that democracies have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have, in general, been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths".
    Last edited by FreedomFromAll; 10-30-12 at 02:52 PM.

  5. #295
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    Re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    the USSC does not over rule the Constitution, no one or institution can challenge the constitutionally of the constitution.

    the constitution tells us that how changes to law must be made, and they are not being made constitutionally.

    example: education and housing are not listed anywhere in the constitution, ...so how is the federal government involved?....... unconstitutionally.

    i have read what Madison put forth, in the constitution and the federalist papers and our union is NOT being run according to that supreme law he created.

    then people want too complain, because the government is corrupt and a few people are running it.............."well no wonder when the law is not being followed"
    You are confusing Madison with Moses, because you think he got a set of laws from a Supreme Being. People who ask, "This proposal may be good for the country, but is it Constitutiional?" are not good for the country. Looking back from over 200 years of government failures and indifference to the people, the American people should have realized by now that this deified Constitution should have been only as a start-up document, to be superseded by all subsequent legislation. Laws should be based on present situations and increasing insight gained from experience; they should not have some overlord with absolute power to impose an out-of-date and ill-informed view of reality. The Constitution, in its high-handed sense of superiority for all time, imposed the very situation you are protesting against, "the government is corrupt and a few people are running it," but since you treat it like it had a divine origin, you are incapable of realizing that it is fallible and must be blamed every time things go wrong.
    Last edited by PrometheusBound; 10-30-12 at 03:07 PM.
    On the outside, trickling down on the insiders.
    We won't live free until the 1% live in fear.
    Hey, richboys! Imagine the boot of democracy stomping on your faces, forever.

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    Re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by PrometheusBound View Post
    You are confusing Madison with Moses, because you think he got a set of laws from a Supreme Being. People who ask, "This proposal may be good for the country, but is it Constitutiional?" are not good for the country. Looking back from over 200 years of government failures and indifference to the people, the American people should have realized by now that this deified Constitution should have been only as a start-up document, to be superseded by all subsequent legislation. Laws should be based on present situations and increasing insight gained from experience; they should not have some overlord with absolute power to impose an out-of-date and ill-informed view of reality. The Constitution, in its high-handed sense of superiority for all time, imposed the very situation you are protesting against, "the government is corrupt and a few people are running it," but since you treat it like it had a divine origin, you are incapable of realizing that it is fallible and must be blamed every time things go wrong.

    here is why you are right and wrong.

    government of the founders....you and i have never lived under!! , because government, destroyed republican government and have moved us closer to democracy which is an evil form of government.

    even though the constitution demands we have republican government the government has disregarded it and sought to create there own ideas of what government should be according to them, WITHOUT going through the constitutional process.

    i am simply saying the constitution can be changed to meet the needs of the times, but government must follow the constitution and change it as the constitution dictates.

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    Re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    "they refer too it as a democracy ....which it is not, they say we practice democratic principles, .....which we do not."


    I think that you are confusing direct democracy with other forms of democracy. For example in the US we have Representative Democracy/Republic


    Perhaps you have not yet reached this far in your readings yet? Federalist No. 10 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "A pure democracy can admit no cure for the mischiefs of faction. A common passion or interest will be felt by a majority, and there is nothing to check the inducements to sacrifice the weaker party. Hence it is, that democracies have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have, in general, been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths".

    since you want too post things...so will i.

    article 4 section 4 of the u.s. constitution

    "The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a ---->Republican Form of Government<-----, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

    democracy is a democratic form of government...the u.s. cannot legally be a democracy.

    FEDERALIST PAPER #39 – "Conformity of the Plan to ->Republican Principles"......................NOT democratic principles.

    federalist paper #43 -To the second question it may be answered, that if the general government should interpose by virtue of this constitutional authority, it will be, of course, bound to pursue the authority. But the authority extends no further than to a guaranty of a republican form of government, which supposes a pre-existing government of the form which is to be guaranteed. As long, therefore, as the existing republican forms are continued by the States, they are guaranteed by the federal Constitution. Whenever the States may choose to substitute other republican forms, they have a right to do so, and to claim the federal guaranty for the latter. The only restriction imposed on them is, that they shall not exchange republican for anti-republican Constitutions; a restriction which, it is presumed, will hardly be considered as a grievance.

    Madison also says, that every state (must be republican)...IF the state is changed from republican to anything other than republican through peaceful means of the people, then that state must LEAVE THE UNION, IF the state is changed from a republican form to anything other than republican , by force, meaning a group of people take over the government, when the union, must use its power to RETURN it too republican government.

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    Re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    since you want too post things...so will i.

    article 4 section 4 of the u.s. constitution

    "The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a ---->Republican Form of Government<-----, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

    democracy is a democratic form of government...the u.s. cannot legally be a democracy.

    FEDERALIST PAPER #39 – "Conformity of the Plan to ->Republican Principles"......................NOT democratic principles.

    federalist paper #43 -To the second question it may be answered, that if the general government should interpose by virtue of this constitutional authority, it will be, of course, bound to pursue the authority. But the authority extends no further than to a guaranty of a republican form of government, which supposes a pre-existing government of the form which is to be guaranteed. As long, therefore, as the existing republican forms are continued by the States, they are guaranteed by the federal Constitution. Whenever the States may choose to substitute other republican forms, they have a right to do so, and to claim the federal guaranty for the latter. The only restriction imposed on them is, that they shall not exchange republican for anti-republican Constitutions; a restriction which, it is presumed, will hardly be considered as a grievance.

    Madison also says, that every state (must be republican)...IF the state is changed from republican to anything other than republican through peaceful means of the people, then that state must LEAVE THE UNION, IF the state is changed from a republican form to anything other than republican , by force, meaning a group of people take over the government, when the union, must use its power to RETURN it too republican government.

    continued from above!

    most of the things people think they know about our founders government is wrong, and its takes reading of the constitution the federalist papers and the founders letters themselves to discover the truth.

    how many times have we been told Jefferson was a desist?..well its wrong.

    Jefferson says our natural rights come from the KING OF KINGS......and that is Jesus...you can find this information in Jefferson personal writings, i am reading the 1904 printed version.
    Last edited by Master PO; 10-30-12 at 04:08 PM.

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    Re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    here is why you are right and wrong.

    government of the founders....you and i have never lived under!! , because government, destroyed republican government and have moved us closer to democracy which is an evil form of government.

    even though the constitution demands we have republican government the government has disregarded it and sought to create there own ideas of what government should be according to them, WITHOUT going through the constitutional process.

    i am simply saying the constitution can be changed to meet the needs of the times, but government must follow the constitution and change it as the constitution dictates.
    For the country to survive the 21st Century the government must follow the people, not a dead letter from the 18th Century. The Constitution did not establish a limited government except in the sense a government limited to a few people (oligarchy, which degenerates into a plutocracy and a hereditary aristocracy), excluding the vast majority of them and creating a growing dictatorship over them. The wannabe aristocrats who wrote this absolute law made it so vague that it could mean anything they wanted it to mean. But the people, who bear the brunt of the sneering decisions made by sheltered oligarchs, know what the laws enabled by the Constitution mean in real life terms. So the people should rule themselves according to what they can see happening as the result of laws made by those who don't have to suffer the consequences of their own isolated and ignorant legislation.
    On the outside, trickling down on the insiders.
    We won't live free until the 1% live in fear.
    Hey, richboys! Imagine the boot of democracy stomping on your faces, forever.

  10. #300
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    Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by PrometheusBound View Post
    For the country to survive the 21st Century the government must follow the people, not a dead letter from the 18th Century. The Constitution did not establish a limited government except in the sense a government limited to a few people (oligarchy, which degenerates into a plutocracy and a hereditary aristocracy), excluding the vast majority of them and creating a growing dictatorship over them. The wannabe aristocrats who wrote this absolute law made it so vague that it could mean anything they wanted it to mean. But the people, who bear the brunt of the sneering decisions made by sheltered oligarchs, know what the laws enabled by the Constitution mean in real life terms. So the people should rule themselves according to what they can see happening as the result of laws made by those who don't have to suffer the consequences of their own isolated and ignorant legislation.
    Second verse, same as the first.
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