View Poll Results: Keep Electoral College or have direct elections?

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  • The Electoral College works, keep it.

    46 42.99%
  • The presidency should be determined by direct national vote.

    49 45.79%
  • IDK/Other

    12 11.21%
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Thread: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

  1. #271
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    Re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Yes, the mere possession of a firearm effects nobody. Therefore there is no ethical reason to deny people the right to own such property.
    And one could say the same for the mere possession of an atomic bomb.
    One could say the same for the mere possession of "safely secured" poisonous chemicals in large quantities in the middle of a neighborhood.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    My response to your attempt to deviate from the topic while resorting to unfair personal characterizations is indeed the central tactic that you have adopted. We all get that you dance with the angels as personified by your good friend Patrick Henry while I consort with the talking snake in the corner wearing the Leon Trotsky Halloween costume. Your efforts make that distinction loud and clear.
    My characterization is not unfair or inaccurate. You have said several times that you would like to deny people the ability to possess military grade firearms. This would represent an encroachment upon their right to own such property. It's pretty cut and dried. If you don't like the way it sounds, maybe there's a reason for that.

  3. #273
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    Re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    My characterization is not unfair or inaccurate. You have said several times that you would like to deny people the ability to possess military grade firearms. This would represent an encroachment upon their right to own such property. It's pretty cut and dried. If you don't like the way it sounds, maybe there's a reason for that.
    So you say. But you also say that there is no such thing as any right for any American to have any weapon they want to have. We seem to be on the same side of that question.

    So what we are talking about IS NOT some chasm of difference here. We are only differing about the fuzzy margins around the edges.

    There is nothing about ENCROACHMENTS in the Constitution. Its a red herring made up by folks who are trying to hijack the actual meaning of the law and of the Constitution to what they want it to mean as a way of political and ideological empowerment. Not to mention monetary gain as well.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    So you say. But you also say that there is no such thing as any right for any American to have any weapon they want to have. We seem to be on the same side of that question.

    So what we are talking about IS NOT some chasm of difference here. We are only differing about the fuzzy margins around the edges.
    No, we are talking about two fundamentally different political philosophies. My position is that it is ethically unjust to undermine or encroach upon the life or property of another. You are willing to do so in order to achieve your political ends. This is the chasm between our two philosophies. I respect the life and property of my fellow man, while you are willing to undermine, encroach upon, or outright deny life and property to your fellow man, depending on your political objectives.

    There is nothing about ENCROACHMENTS in the Constitution. Its a red herring made up by folks who are trying to hijack the actual meaning of the law and of the Constitution to what they want it to mean as a way of political and ideological empowerment. Not to mention monetary gain as well.
    Why do you keep bringing up the Constitution? We're not talking about the Constitution here.

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    Re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    No, we are talking about two fundamentally different political philosophies. My position is that it is ethically unjust to undermine or encroach upon the life or property of another. You are willing to do so in order to achieve your political ends. This is the chasm between our two philosophies. I respect the life and property of my fellow man, while you are willing to undermine, encroach upon, or outright deny life and property to your fellow man, depending on your political objectives.


    Why do you keep bringing up the Constitution? We're not talking about the Constitution here.
    So you should no difficulty in any way shape or from to tell the world what
    1- my political philosophy is
    2- my political ends are
    3- my political objectives are

    Since you made them the centerpiece of you post, lets see you expound on these with some evidence.

    After you satisfactorily accomplish that task, perhaps then we can deal with the Constitution that you seem to now want to talk about.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I have no idea what you are talking about. The two definitions are in caps to distinguish them from the other part of the post. I thought that would help you when you explained both of them together and told me the important differences between the two.
    I know what you said, I'm not an idiot, as you seem to think. All caps is an indication of raising ones voice when communicating in text format. This is common knowledge to the majority of people who communicate through an all text format.

    The difference is federation. The American republic is a federal union, bound not only by the Constitution, but also through federal law. Through federal law, many policies and procedures do not require a vote, only supervision and mandate through the heads of federal bureaus who do not represent the people at all. Our republic is also not representative of the people, but of the interests of the districts. You don't have a voice, no private citizen does, and never truly has.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

  7. #277
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    Re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    I know what you said, I'm not an idiot, as you seem to think. All caps is an indication of raising ones voice when communicating in text format. This is common knowledge to the majority of people who communicate through an all text format.

    The difference is federation. The American republic is a federal union, bound not only by the Constitution, but also through federal law. Through federal law, many policies and procedures do not require a vote, only supervision and mandate through the heads of federal bureaus who do not represent the people at all. Our republic is also not representative of the people, but of the interests of the districts. You don't have a voice, no private citizen does, and never truly has.
    I use caps as a way to distinguish important words or phrases. I know of no rule that says otherwise. I really am not one who is big on doing it "the right way" when common sense indicates there are many ways.

    I really see no difference in our two labels in substance or in practice. Look at your final statement about no citizen having a voice. That is patently false. We have a voice in our ballot selection for all kinds of offices both on a local level, a state level and the federal level. That is a "voice" that people died to have and people in other nations would love to have.

    Beyond that obvious example, many of our states have variations of direct citizen involvement such as initiative, referendum and recall. All three are examples of the democratization of the nation and a departure from 18th century representative ideals.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  8. #278
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    Re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    What most people know is the date on the wall calendar. That would be 2012 and not 1787.

    What most people know is that what fit in 1787 for that nation that no longer exists politically, economically or socially does NOT fit today.
    what you don't know is the union is not being run according too the Constitution which is the supreme law of the land.

    sure its not 1787, and things have to change according too the times, but it must change according to how the Constitution saids it must be changed.

    it is not supposed to be changed because a politician or bureaucrat wants its changed because they don't like something.

    people are complaining all the time, because the government is corrupt, and some elite are running things, and that is because our union is not being run by that supreme law.

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    Re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    what you don't know is the union is not being run according too the Constitution which is the supreme law of the land.

    sure its not 1787, and things have to change according too the times, but it must change according to how the Constitution saids it must be changed.

    it is not supposed to be changed because a politician or bureaucrat wants its changed because they don't like something.

    people are complaining all the time, because the government is corrupt, and some elite are running things, and that is because our union is not being run by that supreme law.
    We have a United States Supreme Court in Washington. They decide issues as to what is or is not Constitutional. Do they know what you claim is going on?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    There are pros and cons. The pro being state representation and larger states not pushing their biased agendas upon the nation through a direct democracy.

    My biggest con is that only swing states really matter and most candidates will pander to local issues to get the votes in swing states.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

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