View Poll Results: Keep Electoral College or have direct elections?

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  • The Electoral College works, keep it.

    46 42.99%
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    49 45.79%
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Thread: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

  1. #181
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    Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Sadly, I am not omnipotent. Neither party will allow a change that will threaten their power.
    Can we agree that Parties are not enshrined in the Constitution?
    People in Dubai don't like the Flintstones but people in Abu Dhabi do

  2. #182
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    re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    it's funny to see the opinions change dependent on the election. when Bush lost the popular vote in 2000, republicans defended the EC tooth and nail. now democrats are pro-EC.

    my opinion is that it does get less populated states more attention. without it, candidates would pay attention mostly to heavily populated areas. this could be a good thing in some cases, but I wouldn't want to see the rural issues ignored.

    on the other hand, I don't see a problem with letting people pick the president directly, and putting a buffer between them and the election seems archaic.

    I suppose I'm still mildly pro-EC, but if they got rid of it, I'd understand.

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    re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Here we go around the mulberry bush, the mulberry bush ...

    I present you with two authoritative sources which show you the proper usage of the term RED HERRING and you present us with nothing more more self justification for your own misuses of the term.

    Your children's nursery rhyme is indeed revealing. Although I must say dealing with you brings up the image of the Mad Hatter in Wonderland rather than the prancing around a mere bush.

    Nor do they have any bearing on the factual correctness of what was said.
    You stated an opinion - not a fact. You stated that even if a state had NO PEOPLE AT ALL that they would still get representation in Congress and cast votes in the electoral college. Asking you about the mechanics of how that would actually work is part and parcel of your claim. The actual mechanics of how you would carry out what you claim can be carried out is indeed highly relevant to showing the validity or the absurdity of your position.

    Since you like children's stories so much, lets use a noted kiddie lit story to illuminate and educate you. If I tell you I can gather enough air in my lungs to huff and puff and blow your house made of bricks to the ground.... and you provide me with the mechanical and anatomical specifications necessary to do just that.... and you demonstrate that one cannot physically do what is claimed ..... how is that a red herring?

    For that is what is being done here. I am telling you flat out that if you have a state with no people, that is it a physical impossibility to have anyone casting votes to elect representatives or be representatives.

    And you are woefully impotent to get around that, answer it or deal with it in any rational and intelligent way.
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  4. #184
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    re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    Can we agree that Parties are not enshrined in the Constitution?
    Enshrined might be the wrong word, but I agree there is nothing really in the constitution about a two-party (or any other number) political system. It is just the nature of the political landscape we find ourselves in. At that same time there is nothing really in the constitution preventing them either.

  5. #185
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    re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I present you with two authoritative sources which show you the proper usage of the term RED HERRING and you present us with nothing more more self justification for your own misuses of the term.

    Your children's nursery rhyme is indeed revealing. Although I must say dealing with you brings up the image of the Mad Hatter in Wonderland rather than the prancing around a mere bush.



    You stated an opinion - not a fact. You stated that even if a state had NO PEOPLE AT ALL that they would still get representation in Congress and cast votes in the electoral college. Asking you about the mechanics of how that would actually work is part and parcel of your claim. The actual mechanics of how you would carry out what you claim can be carried out is indeed highly relevant to showing the validity or the absurdity of your position.

    Since you like children's stories so much, lets use a noted kiddie lit story to illuminate and educate you. If I tell you I can gather enough air in my lungs to huff and puff and blow your house made of bricks to the ground.... and you provide me with the mechanical and anatomical specifications necessary to do just that.... and you demonstrate that one cannot physically do what is claimed ..... how is that a red herring?

    For that is what is being done here. I am telling you flat out that if you have a state with no people, that is it a physical impossibility to have anyone casting votes to elect representatives or be representatives.

    And you are woefully impotent to get around that, answer it or deal with it in any rational and intelligent way.

    More dishonesty I see. I haven't misused it.
    And my factual statement was made in reply to your ridiculous assertion which was and still is, as a distraction, a red herring, as all can see.
    You are wrong! Get used to it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    WTF?

    They represent the State as an entity, not the people.
    The so called State as an entity is meaningless and irrelevant without the citizens who live in it. As such, they ARE the State.
    Incorrect.
    They would still be a State without the people, and would still be represented in both the Senate and Congress.

  6. #186
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    re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post

    More dishonesty I see. .
    You first did not know what Congress was and had to be schooled on that error you made.
    Then you confused a fallacy with sensing sound and had to be schooled on that error you made.
    Now you have been educated on your fallacious use of the term RED HERRING but you continue to issue pompous personal pontifications without any evidence to back them.

    And you have the unmitigated gall to use the term DISHONESTY?

    Amazing!!!!! Truly gob smacking amazing!!!!!
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You first did not know what Congress was and had to be schooled on that error you made.
    Then you confused a fallacy with sensing sound and had to be schooled on that error you made.
    Now you have been educated on your fallacious use of the term RED HERRING but you continue to issue pompous personal pontifications without any evidence to back them.

    And you have the unmitigated gall to use the term DISHONESTY?

    Amazing!!!!! Truly gob smacking amazing!!!!!
    Hyperbole and dishonesty. What a great combination.

    You haven't schooled anyone here. It is hilarious that you think you have.
    And I was spot on for calling your distraction out to be the red herring it was.


    Got any more tricks in the bag to deflect away from your ridiculous position? iLOL

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    re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    We know that it is possible for the candidate receiving the most votes to lose (Gore) and the voters in all but 7 states are now irrelevant to the candidates. The strategy of both is to forget about recieving a majority of votes and instead only care about the delegate count of 7 states.

    Do you think that regardless of the election outcome, there should be a constitutional amendment to have national elections (president) decided by direct democracy in which the winner is determined by which candidate received more votes nationwide?
    Irrelevant. Ballot access laws, and the influence of wealthy institutions (PACs, corporations, hedge funds, oil cos) over the government's police forces effectively suppress any possibility of democracy (or a Republic) in the US.

    The US is as much a democracy as Iran is. In the US, PACs, oil cos, hedge funds, etc. are the Ayatollahs.

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    re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Hyperbole and dishonesty. What a great combination.

    You haven't schooled anyone here. It is hilarious that you think you have.
    And I was spot on for calling your distraction out to be the red herring it was.


    Got any more tricks in the bag to deflect away from your ridiculous position? iLOL
    Is there some reason you are attempting to make this a rather juvenille exercise in mud throwing?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?

    Why do I think I'm in the middle of a Monty Python skit about herrings?
    People in Dubai don't like the Flintstones but people in Abu Dhabi do

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