View Poll Results: Keep Electoral College or have direct elections?

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  • The Electoral College works, keep it.

    46 42.99%
  • The presidency should be determined by direct national vote.

    49 45.79%
  • IDK/Other

    12 11.21%
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Thread: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

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    re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    I understand what you say, but I still don't understand the reasoning behind it. Why should the vote of people who happen to live in less populated areas count more than the vote of a person living in a city? Seems totally arbitrary to me.
    Not sure that you understand this...
    No one's vote counts. No one's. No one has a right to vote for President, and the people do not elect the President.

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    re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by H. Lee White View Post
    Not sure that you understand this...
    No one's vote counts. No one's. No one has a right to vote for President, and the people do not elect the President.
    The United States Constitution lists the RIGHT TO VOTE or a slight variation of those words FIVE DIFFERENT TIMES IN FIVE DIFFERENT PLACES passed and ratified by the American people through their legislatures.
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    re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    Could you translate that into English? I can't decipher your meaning.
    The last sentence got confused because I added something without changing the words that were dependent on the addition. This is a common occurrence in editing; for example, changing the subject to a plural while keeping a singular verb.

    My debating point is similar to refuting the nonsense that if a candidate is against campaign financing, he can express that by not taking it himself. That is a phony alternative because if others are allowed to be financed from special interests, he will lose the election and never be allowed to vote on campaign finance. By going it alone, what Maine is doing is going against the self-interest of its own people by voluntarily sacrificing its political power just to set an example. All proposals have to be looked at as requiring everybody to do it. It is dishonest to charge hypocrisy by asking someone to do it alone, or by pointing out the false choice that any state can do it now. It is a cheap shot and shows ignorance of the reality of the way things work. Maine should be a role model for the country, but not as it is when going it alone. No state should follow Maine's example unless all have to. That is the paradox of reality: You shouldn't be like that unless everybody is like that. What is bad for the individual may be best for all.
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    Hey, richboys! Imagine the boot of democracy stomping on your faces, forever.

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    re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    I understand what you say, but I still don't understand the reasoning behind it. Why should the vote of people who happen to live in less populated areas count more than the vote of a person living in a city? Seems totally arbitrary to me.

    For any reason you can find for the importance of the countryside, you can also find a reason for the importance of cities. And why stop there? Why not making the vote of rich people count more than that of poor? Why not that of whites count more than that of blacks? Why not make that of homeowners count more than that of tenants? And so on. You can certainly find similar reasons to justify all of that.

    In the end it just violates the rule that the vote of every voter should count the same.
    It is a trivial unfairness that shouldn't be resented. Otherwise, you can tell people that if they wanted any real power in this country, they should move to the states with the most electoral votes. Your point would only be relevant if all states had the same number of electoral votes.
    On the outside, trickling down on the insiders.
    We won't live free until the 1% live in fear.
    Hey, richboys! Imagine the boot of democracy stomping on your faces, forever.

  5. #145
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    re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    I like the premise of your ideas here. But Im not sure that a 2nd place winner would work well with the President. I mean they lost for a reason. Just imagine a Bush/Gore or vice versa White house.
    What if the 2nd place lost by a landslide of mega proportions? It would be better then for the VP to run on their own in the same fashion as the President.

    Also I would have the states vote for the Presidency individually. The voters in each state would vote for the president, then the result would go to Washington as a vote for that candidate. A tie would be determined by a total sum of all the votes in all of the states. This would give every state equal representation.

    But I agree with your fantasy of no "parties" because factional representation always is unjust.
    Thanks

    and yes I agree initially it might be a little weird with the 2nd place thing but my thinkin was eventually we would have real candidates and platforms, not such polarizations. And also with a direct vote and the scenerio of 2nd and third place the primaries will really matter also.

    just kicking ideas around, not like im anybody that matters lol
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    re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    The United States Constitution lists the RIGHT TO VOTE or a slight variation of those words FIVE DIFFERENT TIMES IN FIVE DIFFERENT PLACES passed and ratified by the American people through their legislatures.

    There is no right to vote in the constitution. Only amendments that give reason they cant stop you from voting.

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    re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain View Post
    There is no right to vote in the constitution. Only amendments that give reason they cant stop you from voting.
    There is very clearly no right to vote for President -- your state grants you the privilige to vote on the allocation of electors, something that it is not required to do, and someting that, should your state choose to not grant that privilege, leaves you with no immediate legal recourse.

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    re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    The United States Constitution lists the RIGHT TO VOTE or a slight variation of those words FIVE DIFFERENT TIMES IN FIVE DIFFERENT PLACES passed and ratified by the American people through their legislatures.
    No where does it give a citizen the right to vote for president.

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    re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    We know that it is possible for the candidate receiving the most votes to lose (Gore) and the voters in all but 7 states are now irrelevant to the candidates. The strategy of both is to forget about recieving a majority of votes and instead only care about the delegate count of 7 states.

    Do you think that regardless of the election outcome, there should be a constitutional amendment to have national elections (president) decided by direct democracy in which the winner is determined by which candidate received more votes nationwide?
    Direct democracy= majoritarian rule. Bad.

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    Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain View Post
    No where does it give a citizen the right to vote for president.
    You are correct. Hopefully the debate about the right to vote generally will go to The Basement.
    People in Dubai don't like the Flintstones but people in Abu Dhabi do

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