View Poll Results: Keep Electoral College or have direct elections?

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  • The Electoral College works, keep it.

    46 42.99%
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    49 45.79%
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Thread: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

  1. #131
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    re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective-J View Post
    well since this is fantasy my dream would be to not have any "parties" but oh well

    Direct Vote
    4+ candidates minimum (3 separate parties)
    2nd place is VP
    3rd lace leader of the house

    reform House and Senate terms to match

    if we still have parties then no majority would be allowed in either house or senate



    hopefully by default this FORCES bi-partisanship
    I like the premise of your ideas here. But Im not sure that a 2nd place winner would work well with the President. I mean they lost for a reason. Just imagine a Bush/Gore or vice versa White house.
    What if the 2nd place lost by a landslide of mega proportions? It would be better then for the VP to run on their own in the same fashion as the President.

    Also I would have the states vote for the Presidency individually. The voters in each state would vote for the president, then the result would go to Washington as a vote for that candidate. A tie would be determined by a total sum of all the votes in all of the states. This would give every state equal representation.

    But I agree with your fantasy of no "parties" because factional representation always is unjust.

  2. #132
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    re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    I find it very disturbing thast so many here question the wisdom of the founders. We are not and never were intended to be a Democracy. Getting rid of the EC would give all the power to the big states. And mostly libs who live there.

  3. #133
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    re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    First of all, the Senate is part of Congress. To say "in both the Senate and the Congress" is factually incorrect. You could say in the Senate and the House of Representatives. The term CONGRESS takes in both of those parts of the national legislative branch.

    Secondly, Could you explain to us how that would work exactly? Tell us how the remainder of the American people would tolerate and accept that sort of thing where political representation is given to an area with not one person to politically represent. And tell us who exactly would do that actual representing in Congress in nobody lived in that state to qualify for the ballot? And tell us how those persons would get elected without any votes cast for them?
    I nominate you for board lawyer.

  4. #134
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    re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    I nominate you for board lawyer.
    And I know you mean that in the best possible way.
    __________________________________________________ _
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    Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    And I know you mean that in the best possible way.
    Indubitably
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  6. #136
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    re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Incorrect.
    They would still be a State without the people, and would still be represented in both the Senate and Congress.
    You are correct.
    Constitutionally, politically, legally, conceptually and historically, the people and the states are seperate entities.

  7. #137
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    re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by H. Lee White View Post
    You are correct.
    Constitutionally, politically, legally, conceptually and historically, the people and the states are seperate entities.
    And you also are wrong.

    Since you agreed with the previous poster Excon when the said this in response to my post that without any people they would not have any votes

    Incorrect.
    They would still be a State without the people, and would still be represented in both the Senate and Congress.
    perhaps you would then step up and answer these questions?

    Could you explain to us how that would work exactly? Tell us how the remainder of the American people would tolerate and accept that sort of thing where political representation is given to an area with not one person to politically represent. And tell us who exactly would do that actual representing in Congress in nobody lived in that state to qualify for the ballot? And tell us how those persons would get elected without any votes cast for them?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  8. #138
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    re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    I never understood this argument, because it works the other way too: Like it is now, the small, sparsely populated states and their countryside voters "screw" the rest of the country (especially those living in the larger cities).
    The theory behind the EC is that it actually balances out populated/unpopulated areas and gives everybody a more equal voice. There is debate on whether the EC actually does accomplish this, though.

    I wonder if maybe it did work fairly well back then, but has since outlived its usefulness as times have changed.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
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  9. #139
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    re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    The theory behind the EC is that it actually balances out populated/unpopulated areas and gives everybody a more equal voice.
    I understand what you say, but I still don't understand the reasoning behind it. Why should the vote of people who happen to live in less populated areas count more than the vote of a person living in a city? Seems totally arbitrary to me.

    For any reason you can find for the importance of the countryside, you can also find a reason for the importance of cities. And why stop there? Why not making the vote of rich people count more than that of poor? Why not that of whites count more than that of blacks? Why not make that of homeowners count more than that of tenants? And so on. You can certainly find similar reasons to justify all of that.

    In the end it just violates the rule that the vote of every voter should count the same.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  10. #140
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    re: Time for direct democracy - end electorial college?[W:193]

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    I understand what you say, but I still don't understand the reasoning behind it. Why should the vote of people who happen to live in less populated areas count more than the vote of a person living in a city? Seems totally arbitrary to me.

    For any reason you can find for the importance of the countryside, you can also find a reason for the importance of cities. And why stop there? Why not making the vote of rich people count more than that of poor? Why not that of whites count more than that of blacks? Why not make that of homeowners count more than that of tenants? And so on. You can certainly find similar reasons to justify all of that.

    In the end it just violates the rule that the vote of every voter should count the same.
    As far as American colonial times, many of those things were happening. Only landowners could vote. Blacks (and women) could not vote. And so on. Much of it was arbitrary, or at least the prevailing thought of the day, and we have mostly evolved beyond that.

    As far as the EC... and this is only my interpretation... is that without it Presidential candidates would have stayed in Philadelphia and New York City and Boston, and rarely if ever ventured beyond those three cities. The large cities influenced their state as a whole. People in South Carolina would have never seen or heard a word, possibly until after an election. The EC forced candidates to at least pay some attention to rural states while still retaining some semblance of reasonable proportionate representation.

    Again, back then. In today's media and information age, I think a good argument can be made that rural areas get information just fine without the need to see a candidate in the flesh.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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