If you can afford alcohol, drugs, iPhone etc you shouldn't get entitlements

Harry Guerrilla said:

I figured you'd be astute enough to understand that free, means free to the person in need.
I guess I was wrong.

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Point being you and a couple of other people here are whining about people receiving welfare and government assistance and then y'all talk about free services. The services are not free, the services are normally not comprehensive and often not available outside of major metro areas. The services aren't free. Somebody is paying for them to be available.

Often we hear free services mentioned alongside churches and charities. Most are tapped out. They help when they can, but most no longer have the money. Many are trying to find ways to fund their existing services. There are qualified volunteers, sure, but their time is limited.

It's not you personally Harry, but rather the people you have been listening to. They don't know what they are talking about. Sure, oh yeah, it sounds good, but it isn't that way in real life. Think about it. The people who told you it that all these things were wonderfully available for "free" are stupid or they are lying to you. None of the services are "free". Somebody is paying. The people providing services really should be qualified or you end up getting a volunteer like your man Fisher providing mental health counseling.

Person: Yes, I don't know where to turn. We've lost everything. We are looking for work, but it's difficult. I can't sleep at all. I don't know where to begin. Everything I do seems to be the wrong thing. Where do I start? I've got food stamps and a welfare check every two weeks. I can't decide what I should do. My husband left us. He couldn't cope. I don't want to lose my children. What will I do with them if I get a job? My mother is in a nursing home. She's the only family I have. I still have a car. I'll need it to get to work. I don't know what to do.

Fisher the mental health volunteer: Whining only makes it worse. Wallowing in misery makes you more miserable.

Next!





[Certainly your lot understands that depression is characterized by a number of issues such as the inability to prioritize, the inability to make decisions, self-doubt. Mental health also requires assessment. I don't know that a counselor could ever wrap it all up in an hour, LOL! - unless the client doesn't require assistance.]

I'm no mental health counselor, but I pretty familiar with the field and how it functions. It's serious stuff.

And you've done what exactly?

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I'm not sure what you mean by the question.

Muddy Creek said:

Just like a republican; increase the size of government to oversee this program.

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Don't know much about it do you? We've been doing that for years here in Oregon. They get their grant loaded on an Oregon Trail card which they can use to buy goods (approved goods - food, diapers, etc.). Takes less government to administer.

What's taking more government to administer has been extendintg the program to illegal aliens rather than just kicking their butts out. But the feds don't want to do their job.

My choice hinges on what exactly is being excluded.

JohnWOlin said:

I see this one often and I actually totally agree and do in fact agree that you shouldn't be able to get welfare, food stamps, section 8, etc. If someone has images that say this please post. Thoughts?

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If it can be proven that those individuals are actually paying for those things I say just deduct that from the welfare/foodstamps.So if they got a 80 dollar phone cell bill then deduct 80 dollars from their foodstamps/welfare. If they are buying 4 cartons of cigarettes and they are smoking generic and those generic cigs cost 30 dollars a cartoon then deduct a 120 dollars from their welfare/foodstamps. If they are buying a case of beer every week and that case of beer is 15 dollars then deduct 60 dollars from their foodstamps/welfare. Before someone tries to scream but you need a phone there are life line services were you can get a free cell phone and only pay a dollar a month,so there is no reason to own a iphone when you are supposed to be broke for cash.

Risky Thicket said:

Point being you and a couple of other people here are whining about people receiving welfare and government assistance and then y'all talk about free services. The services are not free, the services are normally not comprehensive and often not available outside of major metro areas. The services aren't free. Somebody is paying for them to be available.

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I'm not whining about it, I'm saying that there is a middle ground on this issue.
I think people, who need social services, like food stamps, WIC, Children's Medicaid, etc, should use it.

With that said, I also think they have a responsibility to make life adjustments, to get off said programs.
If at all possible.

Risky Thicket said:

Often we hear free services mentioned alongside churches and charities. Most are tapped out. They help when they can, but most no longer have the money. Many are trying to find ways to fund their existing services. There are qualified volunteers, sure, but their time is limited.

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I understand, but there is a mix of help and self help services.
One does not necessarily have to utilize a program, but can just utilize the materials, teaching oneself have to make these life adjustments.

Risky Thicket said:

It's not you personally Harry, but rather the people you have been listening to. They don't know what they are talking about. Sure, oh yeah, it sounds good, but it isn't that way in real life. Think about it. The people who told you it that all these things were wonderfully available for "free" are stupid or they are lying to you. None of the services are "free". Somebody is paying. The people providing services really should be qualified or you end up getting a volunteer like your man Fisher providing mental health counseling.

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While not in a formal function, I've tried to help people in appears to be a financial panic mode.
A lot just hear me, but don't listen.
I wouldn't have a problem volunteering my time for free, for something like this.
It's actually one of my favorite subjects.

Risky Thicket said:

Person: Yes, I don't know where to turn. We've lost everything. We are looking for work, but it's difficult. I can't sleep at all. I don't know where to begin. Everything I do seems to be the wrong thing. Where do I start? I've got food stamps and a welfare check every two weeks. I can't decide what I should do. My husband left us. He couldn't cope. I don't want to lose my children. What will I do with them if I get a job? My mother is in a nursing home. She's the only family I have. I still have a car. I'll need it to get to work. I don't know what to do.

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If you were really having these problems, I'm sure we could come up with some solutions, but you aren't.
Hell, I could probably do a lot of the car work, for free.

Maybe for the cost of parts, depending on their situation, maybe completely free.

Risky Thicket said:

[Certainly your lot understands that depression is characterized by a number of issues such as the inability to prioritize, the inability to make decisions, self-doubt. Mental health also requires assessment. I don't know that a counselor could ever wrap it all up in an hour, LOL! - unless the client doesn't require assistance.]

I'm no mental health counselor, but I pretty familiar with the field and how it functions. It's serious stuff.

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I understand this.
I was once, completely broke, with no where to turn, I accepted some charity from a person, they were wonderful, wanted nothing in return and I'm completely grateful.

However I know the one thing that kept me down was being miserable.
Changing my attitude is what changed everything.

The problem isn't that we have programs to help people out when they need it. The problem is that people are finding ways to live their lives exclusively on those programs with no desire to go beyond them. I knew a couple about 10 years back where one guy quit going to work, because his wife found a job and combined they would have made too much money to qualify for assistance. It's not that people buy beer or cell phones, it's that attitude of entitlement to programs without the effort to get off the that bothers sensible people.

WI Crippler said:

The problem isn't that we have programs to help people out when they need it. The problem is that people are finding ways to live their lives exclusively on those programs with no desire to go beyond them. I knew a couple about 10 years back where one guy quit going to work, because his wife found a job and combined they would have made too much money to qualify for assistance. It's not that people buy beer or cell phones, it's that attitude of entitlement to programs without the effort to get off the that bothers sensible people.

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Yeah this is pretty accurate however, I personally know people that lie to abuse the system and it happens more than you would think. I just want the abuse to go away because the more abuse there is, the more reasons politicans have reasons to cut these programs for the truly needy.

I wouldn't be in favor of cutting benefits to those whom buy drugs or alcohol or whatever( enforcement would be a bitch)... but i would be ok with mandated money management training for recipients of welfare.

Thrilla said:

I wouldn't be in favor of cutting benefits to those whom buy drugs or alcohol or whatever( enforcement would be a bitch)... but i would be ok with mandated money management training for recipients of welfare.

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Oh that will work well...especially for the many that cant read a paragraph or write a legible one...bravo!!!!!!! money well spent...

lpast said:

Oh that will work well...especially for the many that cant read a paragraph or write a legible one...bravo!!!!!!! money well spent...

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are you suggesting illiterate people can't be taught to manage money?...hmmph, no confidence in the poor among us, that's a weird stance for a liberal.

lpast said:

Oh that will work well...especially for the many that cant read a paragraph or write a legible one...bravo!!!!!!! money well spent...

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Just because something wouldn't be able to help every single person, bar none, doesn't mean it would be a waste of time and/or money.

Thrilla said:

are you suggesting illiterate people can't be taught to manage money?...hmmph, no confidence in the poor among us, that's a weird stance for a liberal.

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No im suggesting you dont have a clue what your talking about on one hand you say you cant enforce them from buying drugs and alcohol and somehow you think you can get all those millions of people to go to class ...you think theres no cost to give those class's and enforce that they actually go...and what is the end result...you think a few class's is going to make people that have the mindset to buy drugs and alchohol instead of food and medicine are somehow miraculously going to change with a few money management class's....are you kidding me

radcen said:

Just because something wouldn't be able to help every single person, bar none, doesn't mean it would be a waste of time and/or money.

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Thats true...but in this specific case it wouldnt work and couldnt work...your not talking about a few people here....your talking about trying to change the LIFELONG learned habits of MILLIONS of people with a few money managment class's when many of them never graduated HS and cant read and write on jr highschool level...and please tell me what the HELL money management class's do for their addictions...Im all for trying something but im not for being ridiculous

lpast said:

No im suggesting you dont have a clue what your talking about on one hand you say you cant enforce them from buying drugs and alcohol and somehow you think you can get all those millions of people to go to class ...you think theres no cost to give those class's and enforce that they actually go...and what is the end result...you think a few class's is going to make people that have the mindset to buy drugs and alchohol instead of food and medicine are somehow miraculously going to change with a few money management class's....are you kidding me

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you are actually whinging about helping poor people with their money management skills?..... holy crap.
first, they can't read, or write.. now they are too stupid or just not worth the effort.
tell me more fairy tales about Democrats wanting to help the poor become successful.. really.. i want to hear them.


I thought it was just hosre**** rhetoric to say Democrats wanted to keep poor people enslaved on welfare...and here you are.. the living embodiment of that rhetoric.

lpast said:

Thats true...but in this specific case it wouldnt work and couldnt work...your not talking about a few people here....your talking about trying to change the LIFELONG learned habits of MILLIONS of people with a few money managment class's when many of them never graduated HS and cant read and write on jr highschool level...and please tell me what the HELL money management class's do for their addictions...Im all for trying something but im not for being ridiculous

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don't worry yourself.. it won't happen anyways.... your government isn't into common sense.
these folks will still have money thrown at them, nothing will be done about their habits, and you can sit back and rejoice.

Thrilla said:

don't worry yourself.. it won't happen anyways.... your government isn't into common sense.
these folks will still have money thrown at them, nothing will be done about their habits, and you can sit back and rejoice.

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Your damn right it wont happen its a totally idiotic idea...

Thrilla said:

you are actually whinging about helping poor people with their money management skills?..... holy crap.
first, they can't read, or write.. now they are too stupid or just not worth the effort.
tell me more fairy tales about Democrats wanting to help the poor become successful.. really.. i want to hear them.


I thought it was just hosre**** rhetoric to say Democrats wanted to keep poor people enslaved on welfare...and here you are.. the living embodiment of that rhetoric.

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Wow, dude seriously are you impaired tonight ? listen, hit the report button a few times and calm down so you can feel good about yourself for having so much integrity lol

lpast said:

Wow, dude seriously are you impaired tonight ? listen, hit the report button a few times and calm down so you can feel good about yourself for having so much integrity lol

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ran out of arguments already?... imagine that.

lpast said:

Your damn right it wont happen its a totally idiotic idea...

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yes.. training people in money management skills is idiotic.

just like teaching people to read and write is idiotic... math?.. way stupid...science?.. horribly irresponsible expenditure


I can tell you are concerned with the well-being of the poorest among us.... it definitely shows.:roll:

Thrilla said:

ran out of arguments already?... imagine that.

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Ya think lol...Im just waiting for you to present one doesnt look like its going to happen either...imagine that...So I guess you feel like you've won huh....LMAO....
So tell me...do you get your military pension in the mail and then put it in another envelope and send it back and write I DONT NEED IT IM RICH across the envelope...or maybe you write stuff it...Im rich and I have too much integrity to take it...do you do the same with your Social Securit check ?? Im just so in awe of your financial success and your stature and the vastness of your knowledge that Im just trying to learn...its like a personal money management class from the Master Professor himself...LMAOoooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Thrilla said:

yes.. training people in money management skills is idiotic.

just like teaching people to read and write is idiotic... math?.. way stupid...science?.. horribly irresponsible expenditure


I can tell you are concerned with the well-being of the poorest among us.... it definitely shows.:roll:

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You seriously do have a limited capacity to determine the value of an idea....I find it amazing that you cant understand that your trying to give at a minimum a high school level class to people that you believe buy drugs with their welfare money...and your totally disregarding the magnitude and cost of trying to get millions of people to go to a class...It couldnt work under any circumstances and even if it could the cost would be phenomenal.

lpast said:

Ya think lol...Im just waiting for you to present one doesnt look like its going to happen either...imagine that...So I guess you feel like you've won huh....LMAO....
So tell me...do you get your military pension in the mail and then put it in another envelope and send it back and write I DONT NEED IT IM RICH across the envelope...or maybe you write stuff it...Im rich and I have too much integrity to take it...do you do the same with your Social Securit check ?? Im just so in awe of your financial success and your stature and the vastness of your knowledge that Im just trying to learn...its like a personal money management class from the Master Professor himself...LMAOoooooooooooooooooooooooooo

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I know you want this to be about me.. but it's not....
control yourself.

you have failed to present a coherent argument as to how money management classes are bad.. or will not work.

present an argument or refrain from typing.

lpast said:

You seriously do have a limited capacity to determine the value of an idea....I find it amazing that you cant understand that your trying to give at a minimum a high school level class to people that you believe buy drugs with their welfare money...and your totally disregarding the magnitude and cost of trying to get millions of people to go to a class...It couldnt work under any circumstances and even if it could the cost would be phenomenal.

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no...actually, I understand that the best way to change a behavior is through education... obviously you disagree

I do not dismiss the learning capacity of people who are poor, you do... in fact, I see them as in the greatest need for an education... you obviously do not.

and no, i'm not talking about going to a class.. I'm talking about going to a series of classes... the cost of which would be negligible if the program were to be initiated with an eye towards efficiency.

if you want further details, act as if you are open to an idea and we can discuss them.. but i won't entertain any more of your open disdain for poor people in lieu of a proper argument..

Thrilla said:

I know you want this to be about me.. but it's not....
control yourself.

you have failed to present a coherent argument as to how money management classes are bad.. or will not work.

present an argument or refrain from typing.

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You made this entire conversation personal thrilla...way back when you responded to my first generic post with a personal insult directed at me.
So your playing the victim now makes you look more foolish than usual.
Not only was your absurd idea to send drug addicts and millions of welfare recipients to a money management class bad it was totally ridiculous.
Remember one thing...you dont give orders around here and especially to me...if anyone is going to stop typing it will be you and your decision.
Im getting the feeling that you dont feel like your winning the game you started...remember the old saying thrilla..cant win them all you would do well to keep that in mind ...Now back to the important stuff
You made a statement that I was a govt teat sucker and that you were rich and you DO NOT ACCEPT your military pension, social security or medicare...you stated verbatim I turn down my entitlements...I just would like to know how you accomplish that...do you put on The Elvis Presley 45 Return to sender Address unknown and hum to the tune...or do you tell the mailman to take it back...do you just tear the checks up and not cash them...or maybe you donate them to your neighborhood homeless shelter...Im just curious...I admire you so much for it...Loooolol...