View Poll Results: Do think Sharia Law is a REAL possiblity in the US?

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Thread: Do think Sharia Law is a REAL possiblity in the US?

  1. #221
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    Re: Do think Sharia Law is a REAL possiblity in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    McCarthy cried wolf... marsden isn't.
    of course he is.

    You can say McCarthy cried wolf, but that is 20/20 hindsight. YOu obviously aren't aware of the horrendous damage that he did to america. To the blatant abuses of the constitution he and Cohn perpetrated on innocent americans. It all started with a general fear of commies and he picked it up and ran with it a delusional attempt to "cleanse" america of its enemies. He got as far as he did, because only a few people had the balls to stand up to him, the most prominent being Murrow.


    IN today's environment with the 24/7 news cycle, it would be impossible

    He is actually advocating for suspension of the constitution, if he ever gets over his paranoia to consider it actually means.

    This is nonsense plain and simple.

    The notion that Islamist could gain any kind of foothold in the US is ludicrous.
    Last edited by Jonsa; 10-19-12 at 09:26 PM.
    My Karma ran over your Dogma.

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    Re: Do think Sharia Law is a REAL possiblity in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by Verthaine View Post
    And you still haven't answered the question.
    You're still dancing around not giving anything concrete about what YOU would do.

    So what are YOUR definitions of ISLAM and ISLAMISM?
    An Islamist is someone who takes the Koran's final commandments as his marchingorders. A fundamentalist.

    Islam?

    Surrender. Islam means to surrender.

  3. #223
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    Re: Do think Sharia Law is a REAL possiblity in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by marsden View Post
    An Islamist is someone who takes the Koran's final commandments as his marchingorders. A fundamentalist.

    Islam?

    Surrender. Islam means to surrender.
    Seems you kind of skimped on the second part.
    All you gave was a brief dictionary definition of what the word ISLAM means.But you really haven't said anything about what Islam MEANS to it's followers.
    Now how do you suggest we keep out the former from coming into this country and doing without discriminating against the latter?

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    Re: Do think Sharia Law is a REAL possiblity in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonsa View Post
    of course he is.

    You can say McCarthy cried wolf, but that is 20/20 hindsight. YOu obviously aren't aware of the horrendous damage that he did to america. To the blatant abuses of the constitution he and Cohn perpetrated on innocent americans. It all started with a general fear of commies and he picked it up and ran with it a delusional attempt to "cleanse" america of its enemies. He got as far as he did, because only a few people had the balls to stand up to him, the most prominent being Murrow.


    IN today's environment with the 24/7 news cycle, it would be impossible

    He is actually advocating for suspension of the constitution, if he ever gets over his paranoia to consider it actually means.

    This is nonsense plain and simple.

    The notion that Islamist could gain any kind of foothold in the US is ludicrous.

    [quote]
    “The portrayal of Senator Joe McCarthy as a wild-eyed demagogue destroying innocent lives is sheer liberal hobgoblinism. Liberals weren’t cowering in fear during the McCarthy era. They were systematically undermining the nation’s ability to defend itself while waging a bellicose campaign of lies to blacken McCarthy’s name. Everything you think you know about McCarthy is a hegemonic lie. Liberals denounced McCarthy because they were afraid of getting caught, so they fought back like animals to hide their own collaboration with a regime as evil as the Nazis.” — Ann Coulter, P. 10

  5. #225
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    Re: Do think Sharia Law is a REAL possiblity in the US?

    I'd like to say a few things for the record, for that I won't get accused of defending or appeasing islamism:

    Of course Islamism is a problem. And even among those Muslims who don't turn to violent organizations, there is an interpretation of Islam prevalent that's very hard to reconcile with Western values. Sharia is not compatible with Western values, no matter if it's a die-hard Salafist variant or a more lenient one. Unfortunately, way too many Muslims still cling to literalist ("fundamentalist") interpretations of Islam, according to which only Muslims go to heaven no matter what they do, and non-Muslims go to hell. God is a angry, punishing God who expects nothing but obedience, not a loving God. Mere belief is considered more important than actions. Because of that, many Muslims focus more on superficial symbols and rituals, than real spirituality.

    Unlike in Christianity or Judaism, thoughts of humanism or enlightenment have not influenced theology on a broad scale (yet), most Muslim schools don't use historization to interpret Quran. Hence orthodox and fundamentalist interpretations of Islam divide the world into the umma of believers and the outside, taking unbelievers as friends is not allowed, jihad is obligation (although there are different interpretations if that really means using weapons and violence), there is no freedom of religion as apostasy deserves death. Orthodox and fundamentalist interpretations of Islam are not just a religion, but a religious-political ideology with totalitarian streaks.

    There are a few attempts to open Muslim theology for modernization, as for example in the Ankara school, which introduced historical hermeneutics to interpret Quran.

    That said, not all Muslims are brainwashed disciples of their religious teachers. There is a considerable diversity in Muslim countries. They are humans, after all, and religion does not necessarily play an important role in their lives. Many simply observe the rules due to societal pressure, fear and tradition. In many regions, there are strong regional traditions in contradiction with Quran, which still have survived up to today. And as Muslims are humans too, you find many people who don't take everything at face value what their imams tell them. Most are not actively violent. In some placed, they live peacefully side by side with members of other religions. In some places, the rules are stricter than in others. In some countries, you find strong nationalism or political ideology competing with religion, in other places archaic tribal affiliations. The degree of economic development and education varies very much too, from one Muslim country to the next.

    So I am convinced, while Islam may be a problem, "the Muslims" are not. Some of them are, of course, and as far as I can see, they are dealt with accordingly. But no need to paint them all with the same broad brush.

    I'll hope and pray that modern interpretations of Quran and understandings of Islam, which are well compatible with human rights and Western values, will gain more popularity among Muslims. As I see it, it's only a matter of time.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

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    Re: Do think Sharia Law is a REAL possiblity in the US?

    The Best Quotes From Ann Coulter’s ‘Treason’ | Right Wing News

    That's the link for Ann Coulter's McCarthy quote.

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    Re: Do think Sharia Law is a REAL possiblity in the US?

    Sharia law hasn't got a snowflake's chance in hell of becoming part of mainstay law in the US. Our law system is strictly secular. Sharia makes no effort to disguise that it is religious law. The two are simply not compatible. Any effort to push Sharia law into secular courts will see the extraordinary occurrence of Atheists and Christians cooperating together to oppose such an attempt.
    Check out my Blog http://momusnews.wordpress.com/
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    Re: Do think Sharia Law is a REAL possiblity in the US?

    We have a Constiution. That Constitution makes this impossible. Win.
    Gary Johnson 2012!!!

    There is all the difference in the world between treating people equally and attempting to make them equal. - F.A. Hayek

  9. #229
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    Re: Do think Sharia Law is a REAL possiblity in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by marsden View Post
    The Best Quotes From Ann Coulter’s ‘Treason’ | Right Wing News

    That's the link for Ann Coulter's McCarthy quote.
    As a general word of advice, quoting Ann Coulter is a bad idea, unless you're doing it for humor value. She's made a very good living saying outrageous things, and given her educational background, I suspect she's doing so for intensely cynical reasons. Here are a few of my favorites:


    "You will find liberals always rooting for savages against civilization." –Ann Coulter
    "They didn't root for the Nazis against civilization." –Bill O'Reilly
    "Oh yes they did. ... It was only when Hitler invaded their precious Soviet Union that at the last minute they came in and suddenly started saying oh no, now you have to fight Hitler." –Ann Coulter, "The O'Reilly Factor," May 7, 2010

    "I don't really like to think of it as a murder. It was terminating Tiller in the 203rd trimester. ... I am personally opposed to shooting abortionists, but I don't want to impose my moral values on others." --on the murder of Kansas abortion doctor George Tiller, FOX News interview, June 22, 2009

    "We just want Jews to be perfected, as they say." --arguing that it would be better if we were all Christian

    "If I'm going to say anything about John Edwards in the future, I'll just wish he had been killed in a terrorist assassination plot."

    "We need to execute people like (John Walker Lindh) in order to physically intimidate liberals."

    "We should invade their countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity."

    "My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times Building."

    "God gave us the earth. We have dominion over the plants, the animals, the trees. God said, 'Earth is yours. Take it. Rape it. It's yours.'"

    -http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/funnyquotes/a/anncoulter.htm

    So... yeah. Not someone you should count on as a viable source of information.

  10. #230
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    Re: Do think Sharia Law is a REAL possiblity in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    I'd like to say a few things for the record, for that I won't get accused of defending or appeasing islamism:

    Of course Islamism is a problem. And even among those Muslims who don't turn to violent organizations, there is an interpretation of Islam prevalent that's very hard to reconcile with Western values. Sharia is not compatible with Western values, no matter if it's a die-hard Salafist variant or a more lenient one. Unfortunately, way too many Muslims still cling to literalist ("fundamentalist") interpretations of Islam, according to which only Muslims go to heaven no matter what they do, and non-Muslims go to hell. God is a angry, punishing God who expects nothing but obedience, not a loving God. Mere belief is considered more important than actions. Because of that, many Muslims focus more on superficial symbols and rituals, than real spirituality.

    Unlike in Christianity or Judaism, thoughts of humanism or enlightenment have not influenced theology on a broad scale (yet), most Muslim schools don't use historization to interpret Quran. Hence orthodox and fundamentalist interpretations of Islam divide the world into the umma of believers and the outside, taking unbelievers as friends is not allowed, jihad is obligation (although there are different interpretations if that really means using weapons and violence), there is no freedom of religion as apostasy deserves death. Orthodox and fundamentalist interpretations of Islam are not just a religion, but a religious-political ideology with totalitarian streaks.

    There are a few attempts to open Muslim theology for modernization, as for example in the Ankara school, which introduced historical hermeneutics to interpret Quran.

    That said, not all Muslims are brainwashed disciples of their religious teachers. There is a considerable diversity in Muslim countries. They are humans, after all, and religion does not necessarily play an important role in their lives. Many simply observe the rules due to societal pressure, fear and tradition. In many regions, there are strong regional traditions in contradiction with Quran, which still have survived up to today. And as Muslims are humans too, you find many people who don't take everything at face value what their imams tell them. Most are not actively violent. In some placed, they live peacefully side by side with members of other religions. In some places, the rules are stricter than in others. In some countries, you find strong nationalism or political ideology competing with religion, in other places archaic tribal affiliations. The degree of economic development and education varies very much too, from one Muslim country to the next.

    So I am convinced, while Islam may be a problem, "the Muslims" are not. Some of them are, of course, and as far as I can see, they are dealt with accordingly. But no need to paint them all with the same broad brush.

    I'll hope and pray that modern interpretations of Quran and understandings of Islam, which are well compatible with human rights and Western values, will gain more popularity among Muslims. As I see it, it's only a matter of time.
    This is a pretty good post, but it bears mentioning that Islam, as it currently stands, is really not very much like Islam as it was a couple of hundred years ago, or even 75 years ago. The hardliners have re-taken control. The point that I'm making is that when you're talking about "modernizing" Islam, you're skipping over the fact that it was way the hell more progressive a century or two ago than it is right now.

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