View Poll Results: Should marijuana be legalised?

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Thread: Legalisation of Marijuana

  1. #141
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    Re: Legalisation of Marijuana

    I thought I would post this as it is relevant to the poll.

    Ron Paul Legalize Marijuana Bill: 8 Reasons Why It Makes Sense

    Barney Frank authored H.R.2306 introduced by Frank, Ron Paul, Conyers, Lee, Polis and Cohen. The legislation aimed to decriminalization marijuana by removing it from schedule of controlled substances Schedule I(c) of section 202(c) of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 812(c)). The amendment, now with 20 co-sponsors, languishes in committee awaiting additional sponsors.

    Seventeen states, including D.C. now have legislation allowing the use of medical marijuana. Seven states have legislation currently pending. However, federal law and state laws are in conflict and will remain so until such legislation as H.R. 2306 or future legislation just like it is passed. This is a state's rights issue and it's time for the federal government to quit playing "Big Brother" and overstepping its bounds.

    It is time Congress acted to decriminalize the use of marijuana and here are eight reasons why.

    1. Our congress is supposed to recognize the will of the people, not impose their will on the people. Even though recent polls show the majority, 56% of the public, is in favor of legalizing and regulating marijuana, and a full 47% of citizens are in favor of taxing cannabis, there still has been no action by Congress. Maybe election polls are the only ones that get attention in Washington.

    2. The Global Commission on Drug Policy report admits the global war on drugs has failed. In fact, consumption has increased. Doesn't taking action just make sense, even if we just consider the economics?

    3. The War on Drugs has cost over a trillion dollars and hundreds of thousands of lives have been spent. The availability of drugs has increased instead of decreased since Nixon enacted tougher drug laws in the 1970s. In a time our country needs to cut spending, it seems like this would be a no-brainer. But then there are the lobbyists adding to election coffers. And the people in jail aren't making campaign contributions. Seems that in addition to those who have invested in private prisons, local police need that federal drug war money to keep the cash flows going.

    4. There is also the cost to states. In addition to fighting the drug war, the cost to jail non-violent drug offenders averages about $47,000 per year (depending on the state). This is causing a massive drain on state budgets. And because Medicaid covers medical care for prisoners it is a burden to that program as well. Since so many prisons have been privatized they need every penny of profit they can get.

    5. Data proves 51% of all incarcerations today are for drug offenses and less than 10% of those offences involved violence. If marijuana was decriminalized, and non-violent offenders released, the privately owned prisons would lose vast numbers of clients and the flow of new clients delivered to them through their customers, the state criminal court systems, might come to a screeching halt. But wouldn't that free up our over burdened court systems as well. Of course, we need to think of the economic shock this would be to local attorneys across the country.

    6. Another reason to decriminalize is racial disparity. Blacks are 57 times more likely than any other group to be incarcerated for crimes involving drugs, but they only make up 15.4% of drug users arrested. Whites make up 83.5% of those charged with drug violation, but a white person is less likely to go to jail. This is simply another clear area where the war on drugs combined with our criminal justice system has failed miserably.

    7. Scientific research is another area that our congressional leaders choose to dismiss. At one time this "science" was key to criminalizing the use of marijuana. Relying on "experts," the nation was told how dangerous marijuana was. We were told how violent it made people (it actually makes people passive) and it how addictive it is. Now we learn it not addictive. Cigarettes are addictive and kill people. Marijuana actually is medicinal and helps many who suffer from a variety of ailments. And even more recently we have learned it may actually halt or cure cancer. We are now told it is a "gateway" to other even more dangerous drugs. Let's face facts, the only reason it is a gateway drug is because the drug dealers are often a one-stop shop for illegal substances. And if marijuana were decriminalized, there would be no need to visit the local drug dealer. Anyone could grow it in his or her back yard, or in a flowerpot inside his or her homes for that matter. Which is why, along with police and investors in the private prison system, pharmaceutical companies are also among those who lobby against decriminalizing marijuana. It might decrease sales of the addictive pain killing drugs that are one of the major contributors this nations drug addiction problems.

    8. Ron Paul explains the most important reason for decriminalizing marijuana. Personal liberty. It's what this country is supposed to be about.

  2. #142
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    Re: Legalisation of Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by mhurford View Post
    I won't get into alcohol as this trails off from this thread. However, you said the bad things with Marijuana are already happening now legal or illegal. So you mean to tell me that if it was legal, those 'bad things happening' wouldn't increase at a sequential rate? making something legal encourages young minds to believe that it is perfectly okay to use and studies show that marijuana doesn't have the same affect on everyone, making this drug unstable at high dosages. As far as control goes, we can't control it now when it's illegal, you think by making it legal that it would be easier to control? Marijuana is obtainable by prescription and I believe that is the best way to do it in my opinion. Illegal drug-flow will always be there, however, legalizing it will make it get out of hand. We will go from little control we have now to no control at all.
    We already have no control, prohibition cedes control to the drug dealers and the black market (the very people we should make sure do not have control)- heck the drug cartels expect and plan on a certain percentage of their drugs getting intercepted, it does not keep it from being readily available and it certainly does not keep them out of the hands of kids. Part of the reason I am for legalization is to take steps to make it more difficult to wind up in the hands of minors. A black market does not do this, it enables it to get into those hand more readily.

    If we legalize and control the supply chain from production to distribution the scope of the black market will be drastically reduced, as will the associated violence.. just look at alcohol as an example. Sure there is still moonshine to be found, but the availability of bootleg alcohol is minuscule compared to what it was during prohibition - a is the violence associated with the black market.

    There is no control on production, there is no control on distribution.

    And I am not sure about the poster you quoted, but I do mean to tell you this: past examples indicate that if there is an increase in usage it will be negligible, and offset by a lowered incidence of juvenile usage.

    here is an old post of mine with plenty of quotes from studies that back my assertion on usage rates:

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/genera...post1058236364
    Last edited by marduc; 10-18-12 at 03:21 PM.
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    Re: Legalisation of Marijuana

    Seeing that it's been proven to damage brain cells/lower IQ, I'm reluctantly for legalizing it. I'd rather it remain illegal but then again people are going to smoke it regardless.

  4. #144
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    Re: Legalisation of Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    We already have no control, prohibition cedes control to the drug dealers and the black market (the very people we should make sure do not have control)- heck the drug cartels expect and plan on a certain percentage of their drugs getting intercepted, it does not keep it from being readily available and it certainly does not keep them out of the hands of kids. Part of the reason I am for legalization is to take steps to make it more difficult to wind up in the hands of minors. A black market does not do this, it enables it to get into those hand more readily.

    If we legalize and control the supply chain from production to distribution the scope of the black market will be drastically reduced, as will the associated violence.. just look at alcohol as an example. Sure there is still moonshine to be found, but the availability of bootleg alcohol is minuscule compared to what it was during prohibition - a is the violence associated with the black market.

    There is no control on production, there is no control on distribution.

    And I am not sure about the poster you quoted, but I do mean to tell you this: past examples indicate that if there is an increase in usage it will be negligible, and offset by a lowered incidence of juvenile usage.

    here is an old post of mine with plenty of quotes from studies that back my assertion on usage rates:

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/genera...post1058236364
    Very well said marduc. I would like to say that we do have minimal control on these drugs through the DEA. The DEA is not a small government organization, they have met many of their goals in shutting down major drug traffickers in many states throughout the years. That settles the minimal control dispute and yes drugs are still flowing in the USA but it could be worse if it hadn't been for the DEA. To settle the point you made about these drugs being harder for minors to obtain if it was legal I would disagree on. I would like to use Cigarettes and Alcohol as my example, in college I know many people who go to the corner store to buy these drugs for minors because minors would pay them and college students' say it's 'easy one-minute cash'. If we put Marijuana on the shelves of local stores (next to cigarettes and tobacco) then minors can pay those of age to buy marijuana for them vs. going to a drug dealer. I understand that we cant stop people from using this drug, but we can at least make it difficult for them to get their hands on it. As far as I understand, majority of the people here are for making this drug easier to obtain and that is what I'm against in my opinion.
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    Re: Legalisation of Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    Seeing that it's been proven to damage brain cells/lower IQ, I'm reluctantly for legalizing it. I'd rather it remain illegal but then again people are going to smoke it regardless.
    so does alcohol. so do many of the pain killers etc being illegally abused. Its real easy to get those.

    But then again so does watching FAUX News .

    You can't protect people from themselves. Its anti liberty and for many it is an impediment to their notion of pursuing happiness.
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    Re: Legalisation of Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonsa View Post
    You can't protect people from themselves.
    That's unfortunate.

    I wonder if marijuana destroys IQ moreso than alcohol and other substances. I have two cousins that smoke pot... and then they started failing in school, dropped out, and are, well, dumb potheads. Hell, I remember when I was studying in a quiet room once in my uncle's home, and they were smoking pot in the basement. The vapors would travel up through the vents and I'd at times inhale some of it. Literally, I'd feel it clouding up my mind a bit, so in a hurry I'd go outside for fresh air with my books. After a while my mind became clearer. My thoughts are the pot smoke directly hindered my thought processes. So, I avoid it any time I can.

  7. #147
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    Re: Legalisation of Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by mhurford View Post
    Very well said marduc. I would like to say that we do have minimal control on these drugs through the DEA. The DEA is not a small government organization, they have met many of their goals in shutting down major drug traffickers in many states throughout the years. That settles the minimal control dispute and yes drugs are still flowing in the USA but it could be worse if it hadn't been for the DEA. To settle the point you made about these drugs being harder for minors to obtain if it was legal I would disagree on. I would like to use Cigarettes and Alcohol as my example, in college I know many people who go to the corner store to buy these drugs for minors because minors would pay them and college students' say it's 'easy one-minute cash'. If we put Marijuana on the shelves of local stores (next to cigarettes and tobacco) then minors can pay those of age to buy marijuana for them vs. going to a drug dealer. I understand that we cant stop people from using this drug, but we can at least make it difficult for them to get their hands on it. As far as I understand, majority of the people here are for making this drug easier to obtain and that is what I'm against in my opinion.
    They have met their goals? drugs are cheaper, more potent, and more readily available then they were 40 years ago when the drug war started. Ohhh you qualify it by saying "shutting down major traffickers". That does not get drugs off the streets, that creates a job opening that will quickly be filled (often times after a bit of violence between conflicting aspirants). The lure of huge amounts of cash is too appealing to too many people - there is a never ending supply of aspiring replacement drug dealers to fill the void a bust (or a hit) creates. What it does do is promote a survival of the fittest situation, where those who do rise to the top are the most ruthless.

    As for the availability to kids.. year after year there was an annual CASA survey of school aged kids which asked what is the easiest to buy, alcohol, cigarettes, or marijuana. Year after year marijuana was reported to be easier to buy than alcohol. Why? for alcohol you had to look for that big brother who would look the other way, or procure a fake ID, or whatever, you had to jump through hoops to get it. With pot there were no hoops to jump through - a dealer does not ask for ID, and a dealer is often right there in your school, or the kid down the street. There is NO CONTROL keeping it out of hands of minors, and there is no issue of availability. \

    We have been trying to make it more difficult for people to get their hands on drugs -for 40 freaking years now!! We have intensified and tried doubling down on our efforts and thrown more money and personel and resources at it numerous times along the way, to no avail, it has not worked, and has caused a thriving black market, an associated gang culture, and a ton of violent crimes, and packed our prisons, and ruined peoples lives.

    If we want to get a grip on the situation a new tactic is needed, we need to take steps to control the drugs, to control the availability, and most importantly to educate kids, and take steps to keep it out of their hands, and do everything we can to delay the age of first use (which lowers overall usage, and addiction rates across the board). None of this can be accomplished with the black market in control
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  8. #148
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    Re: Legalisation of Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by mhurford View Post
    Very well said marduc. I would like to say that we do have minimal control on these drugs through the DEA. The DEA is not a small government organization, they have met many of their goals in shutting down major drug traffickers in many states throughout the years. That settles the minimal control dispute and yes drugs are still flowing in the USA but it could be worse if it hadn't been for the DEA. To settle the point you made about these drugs being harder for minors to obtain if it was legal I would disagree on. I would like to use Cigarettes and Alcohol as my example, in college I know many people who go to the corner store to buy these drugs for minors because minors would pay them and college students' say it's 'easy one-minute cash'. If we put Marijuana on the shelves of local stores (next to cigarettes and tobacco) then minors can pay those of age to buy marijuana for them vs. going to a drug dealer. I understand that we cant stop people from using this drug, but we can at least make it difficult for them to get their hands on it. As far as I understand, majority of the people here are for making this drug easier to obtain and that is what I'm against in my opinion.
    I dont see the DEA being at all successful in accomplishing their mandate. I see them being tactically successful every once in a while with a major bust, but when you add up all their busts, its a small fraction of the trade, and as Marduc said, distributors factor it into their cost structure - its simply another cost of doing business.

    the issue of access by minors is one that is also impossible to control. A minor has access to all kinds of "legal" drugs in his parents bathroom cabinet which only become "illegal" when he steals them to party with.

    Spending billions of attempting to stem the flow of pot and failing miserably doesn't seem to me to be a wise approach. Prohibition in the 20.s only served to enrich organized crime. Prohibition of pot is doing exactly the same thing, with the added tragedy of needlessly incarcerating millions of young people and branding the as criminals for life.

    The whole issue of "illegal" drugs is further compounded by all the "legal" drugs used illegally. It is insane that the very same drug can be both legal and illegal - in other words the definitions of legal/illegal is arbitrary when it comes to mind altering substances.

    How about simply making pot available by prescription from you doctor? You know like those millions of fake prescriptions for hydrocontin?
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    Re: Legalisation of Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    They have met their goals? drugs are cheaper, more potent, and more readily available then they were 40 years ago when the drug war started. Ohhh you qualify it by saying "shutting down major traffickers". That does not get drugs off the streets, that creates a job opening that will quickly be filled (often times after a bit of violence between conflicting aspirants). The lure of huge amounts of cash is too appealing to too many people - there is a never ending supply of aspiring replacement drug dealers to fill the void a bust (or a hit) creates. What it does do is promote a survival of the fittest situation, where those who do rise to the top are the most ruthless.

    As for the availability to kids.. year after year there was an annual CASA survey of school aged kids which asked what is the easiest to buy, alcohol, cigarettes, or marijuana. Year after year marijuana was reported to be easier to buy than alcohol. Why? for alcohol you had to look for that big brother who would look the other way, or procure a fake ID, or whatever, you had to jump through hoops to get it. With pot there were no hoops to jump through - a dealer does not ask for ID, and a dealer is often right there in your school, or the kid down the street. There is NO CONTROL keeping it out of hands of minors, and there is no issue of availability. \

    We have been trying to make it more difficult for people to get their hands on drugs -for 40 freaking years now!! We have intensified and tried doubling down on our efforts and thrown more money and personel and resources at it numerous times along the way, to no avail, it has not worked, and has caused a thriving black market, an associated gang culture, and a ton of violent crimes, and packed our prisons, and ruined peoples lives.

    If we want to get a grip on the situation a new tactic is needed, we need to take steps to control the drugs, to control the availability, and most importantly to educate kids, and take steps to keep it out of their hands, and do everything we can to delay the age of first use (which lowers overall usage, and addiction rates across the board). None of this can be accomplished with the black market in control

    So since we can't control it at all as you say, we should throw down our efforts to trying to get people to make smart choices in their life and just legalize it? Shoot we could even advertise in commercials to buy it at your local gas station. Maybe in ten or twenty years we can legalize crystal meth too because once it gets too hard to control we should give up and legalize it. Sometimes, for the better of man kind, things should be denied to others simply because it's stupid. Anything that impairs your senses or your judgement should be illegal (in my opinion because i'm all about getting smarter, stronger and more advanced versus other nations). We should just be like Amsterdam and make weed legal. open up a few 'Weed Cafe's'. What better way to spend the day then to smoke a plant. It is very productive (sarcasm). You might bring drinking in to this saying it's not productive and it's legal. Well let me say that two wrongs don't make a right. We shouldn't expand choices for stupid options (ie. "hmm... today should i go to a bar and drink my brains out? or maybe grab some weed around the corner and chill at home all day?).

    When things get hard to control, we don't give in and just legalize it like we did with Alcohol. People ask why won't Washington look at legalizing Marijuana when that's what the people want? well in my opinion, I would ignore the issue too if I was in Washington because smoking a plant isn't productive and i wouldn't want to educate people on how 'great and amazing' it makes you feel. I'd rather invest resources in getting people to get more help on career fields they are interested in but don't have money to pursue.

    I never said the DEA was 100% successful. but they have made accomplishments if you look back at their timeline. they have caught several drug lords and thousands of small drug dealers. I'm not sure how you see drug dealing as something as you going to someone and simply applying. trust plays a big role in this system since drugs like marijuana are ILLEGAL. So if your a drug lord who had all your friends arrested for dealing your just gonna go downtown and ask around, "excuse me, can you deal some drugs for me?". It doesn't work that way. Drug dealing is enticed through connections. connections are not made over night. As far as you saying kids find it easier to go to a drug dealer to get drugs. This same rule applies. He doesn't go to google and search for his local drug dealer. He also doesn't ask a kid he barely knows where to get drugs. Even if a kid told another kid where to buy drugs, the dealer doesn't know if this random kid is going to report him or not. Cash rewards are given to people who report drug dealer, not sure if your aware of that (rewards upwards to $10,000 depending on your state). Money like that being rewarded for turning in a drug dealer makes finding trustful customers and loyal drug dealers hard to come by.
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    Re: Legalisation of Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by mhurford View Post
    When things get hard to control, we don't give in and just legalize it like we did with Alcohol. People ask why won't Washington look at legalizing Marijuana when that's what the people want? well in my opinion, I would ignore the issue too if I was in Washington because smoking a plant isn't productive and i wouldn't want to educate people on how 'great and amazing' it makes you feel. I'd rather invest resources in getting people to get more help on career fields they are interested in but don't have money to pursue.
    What about the fact that keeping marijuana illegal fuels drug cartels and adds to an already overpopulated prison population? There are ill effects to keeping marijuana illegal.

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