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CEOs taking away political freedom of workers.

Is this a breach of liberty?

  • Yes

    Votes: 21 53.8%

  • No

    Votes: 18 46.2%
  • Total voters
    39
RGacky3

RGacky3

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Yet I guess libertarians will thing this is absolutely ok ... which goes to show, they don't care about liberty, they are all for private plutocratic tyrannies.
 
The Tool can say whatever he wants to say. There is no breach of Liberty because all of our votes are secret ballots. At most, he'll minimize the number of Obama/Biden bumper stickers in the parking lots.

I'd still fly mine, if only just to let him know that I personally plan to negate his vote at the Polls.
 
Your party registration is a matter of public record.
 
I'm a libertarian. I'd suggest that his workers solve the problem the old-fashioned way - through industrial action.
 
Mickey Shane said:
The Tool can say whatever he wants to say. There is no breach of Liberty because all of our votes are secret ballots. At most, he'll minimize the number of Obama/Biden bumper stickers in the parking lots.

I'd still fly mine, if only just to let him know that I personally plan to negate his vote at the Polls.
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As RGacky3 mentioned, party affiliation is public. Also political campaign contributions. Political campaign volunteering although not officially published can be monitored. Yard signs, bumper stickers, etc. are all public.
 
Smeagol said:
As RGacky3 mentioned, party affiliation is public. Also political campaign contributions. Political campaign volunteering although not officially published can be monitored. Yard signs, bumper stickers, etc. are all public.
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I have the stickers, yard sign, T-shirt, and have made two monetary contributions to Obama's campaign. My Boss, while not as wealthy as Mr. Tool, thinks and acts just like him.

I will not back down.
 
One possible way that corporate fascism will advance upon our citizenry is through these sort of intrusive actions designed to intimidate and cow workers into betraying their own interests in favor of the corporation and their wealthy owners. Disgusting attempts like this must be exposed, attacked and stopped in their tracks.

The right to vote and to participate in the political process depends on the unfettered and unobstructed freedom to exercise that right.
 
haymarket said:
One possible way that corporate fascism will advance upon our citizenry is through these sort of intrusive actions designed to intimidate and cow workers into betraying their own interests in favor of the corporation and their wealthy owners. Disgusting attempts like this must be exposed, attacked and stopped in their tracks.
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Agreed. Why, can you imagine what would be next? Why, he might take his workers money and use it to offset political activity. That would be awful.
 
cpwill said:
Agreed. Why, can you imagine what would be next? Why, he might take his workers money and use it to offset political activity. That would be awful.
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He is ALREADY taking money he made off his workers and using it for political activity that goes against the interests of his workers.

That is ALREADY happening.
 
haymarket said:
He is ALREADY taking money he made off his workers and using it for political activity that goes against the interests of his workers.

That is ALREADY happening.
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OH MY GOSH! That's AWFUL. We need to stop that kind of thing Right Away!
 
cpwill said:
OH MY GOSH! That's AWFUL. We need to stop that kind of thing Right Away!
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Why would you introduce material that has nothing to do with the topic being discussed? Your personal right wing cause celebre quixotic war on unions is irrelevant to the subject of this thread.
 
while i believe his actions are beyond ethical
there can be found no taking of liberty
his employees must exercise their rights ... not forfeit them to some con artist such as this bastard
every employee gets to vote without anyone knowing how they voted
if they feel their job security depends upon their employer knowing how they voted then tell him what he wants to hear
that in no way imposes on them an obligation to actually vote the way he would wish
 
He has the right to say that. Then anyone he fires can sue his ass.

My father in law was under a similar order in '84 to vote for Reagan. For some unknown reason, he did. Since he lived in Minnesota, it made no difference as it was the only state Mondale won. But I can't figure out how this guy's going to know who his employees voted for. If indeed he can find out, I'd worry about what kind of election fraud he's able to pull off. It would be a worrisome state if he could know.
 
RGacky3 said:


Yet I guess libertarians will thing this is absolutely ok ... which goes to show, they don't care about liberty, they are all for private plutocratic tyrannies.
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At 3:10, this guy talks about Murray Energy, the coal company where rumor had it that the miners were forced to go to a Romney Rally. That is blatantly false.

The 24-Karat Tool, however, is as tooly as presented. He probably has Alzheimer's Disease.

rocket88 said:
He has the right to say that. Then anyone he fires can sue his ass.

My father in law was under a similar order in '84 to vote for Reagan. For some unknown reason, he did. Since he lived in Minnesota, it made no difference as it was the only state Mondale won. But I can't figure out how this guy's going to know who his employees voted for. If indeed he can find out, I'd worry about what kind of election fraud he's able to pull off. It would be a worrisome state if he could know.
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Sue on what grounds? He's not saying he'll fire them in retaliation. He's saying he'll decide to go out of business and retire to a sunny beach. Different things.

But let's just be honest here. The guy's a ****ing idiot. :rofl
 
This is not the Gilded Age. It isn't right for business owners or anyone else to coerce the votes of people in this manner. This kind of thing should be illegal. We had another thread on this a few days ago...I think they're crossing the line to tell workers that they'll be forced to cut back on staff if a certain candidate wins office, because there is an implicit threat there. I'm not buying the line of thought that they're simply conveying to the workers what is likely to happen, because there is so much conjecture involved that there's no way they can accurately predict what the business conditions will look like depending on who wins election.

Back in 2009, at my first job out of college, I remember that the management called us into a meeting. At the time, "card-check" (pro-union) legislation was in the news and there was a big concern at my company that it was going to become law. They told us how card-check legislation would have a negative impact on our company and might ultimately cause them to make budget cuts (although they didn't specify from where). In my opinion, even THAT is a gray area of inappropriateness and walking a pretty thin line with voter intimidation...even though they didn't explicitly threaten our jobs and there wasn't even an upcoming election. I think it DEFINITELY crosses the line when a manager explicitly threatens their job if a specific candidate wins, especially just before an election.
 
MaggieD said:
At 3:10, this guy talks about Murray Energy, the coal company where rumor had it that the miners were forced to go to a Romney Rally. That is blatantly false.

The 24-Karat Tool, however, is as tooly as presented. He probably has Alzheimer's Disease.




Sue on what grounds? He's not saying he'll fire them in retaliation. He's saying he'll decide to go out of business and retire to a sunny beach. Different things.

But let's just be honest here. The guy's a ****ing idiot. :rofl
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Well, OK. I like how he admits to illegalities in helping Bush by not turning in registrations for Democrat employees. Can you say "fraud?" I know someone will defend him for that. In 3,2,1...
 
RGacky3 said:


Yet I guess libertarians will thing this is absolutely ok ... which goes to show, they don't care about liberty, they are all for private plutocratic tyrannies.
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This is a breach of liberty.Employers have no business extorting their employees to vote a particular way.This should be a criminal offense with a mandatory minimum of 5 years in a real prison and the company seriously fined.
 
rocket88 said:
Well, OK. I like how he admits to illegalities in helping Bush by not turning in registrations for Democrat employees. Can you say "fraud?" I know someone will defend him for that. In 3,2,1...
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Can't defend him for that. He should be prosecuted for admitting he committed fraud, in my opinion. (And his admitting it is just one more reason I think some of his cylinders have stopped firing.)

jamesrage said:
This is a breach of liberty.Employers have no business extorting their employees to vote a particular way.This should be a criminal offense with a mandatory minimum of 5 years in a real prison and the company seriously fined.
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Nonsense. Freedom of Speech.
 
MaggieD said:
Can't defend him for that. He should be prosecuted for admitting he committed fraud, in my opinion. (And his admitting it is just one more reason I think some of his cylinders have stopped firing.)
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You can't, but you're classy. :)
 
MaggieD said:
Nonsense. Freedom of Speech.
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Freedom of speech is not a carte blanche to coerce one's workers into doing whatever one wants them to do. Just as freedom of speech does not enable a manager to tell his employees "have sex with me or you're fired," it shouldn't give him the right to tell his employees "vote for my candidate or you're fired." Or anything even approximating that.
 
MaggieD said:
Nonsense. Freedom of Speech.
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Which apparently you're willing to extend only to business owners.

This is absurd. I'm a libertarian. There's nothing here remotely connected to freedom of speech.
 
Einzige said:
Which apparently you're willing to extend only to business owners.

This is absurd. I'm a libertarian. There's nothing here remotely connected to freedom of speech.
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No, I'm willing to extend it to anyone. Why do you say that? Unions are particularly good at utilizing freedom of speech to encourage their members to vote for Obama. What do you think they're telling their membership when they go knock on their doors this time of year?

What does your being a libertarian have to do with this? Is freedom of speech different for libertarians?
 
MaggieD said:
No, I'm willing to extend it to anyone. Why do you say that? Unions are particularly good at utilizing freedom of speech to encourage their members to vote for Obama. What do you think they're telling their membership when they go knock on their doors this time of year?
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Unions can't fire you.

Incidentally, this "liberals do it, so we can, too" moral relativism is especially unimpressive coming from moral absolutists.

What does your being a libertarian have to do with this? Is freedom of speech different for libertarians?
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Freedom of speech is consistent for libertarians (conservatives having never cared much for the concept, unless it's a religious organization being 'threatened'). For us, the concept is grounded in a specific praxis.

Telling your employees to vote for a candidate is freedom of speech. Firing an employee for not doing it is not speech at all.

Most libertarians - and I don't mean "I'm a Republican who likes to smoke pot", but a consistent philosophical libertarian - would look at this and go "that's not freedom of speech; it's an infringement on the employees' freedom of expression".
 
Einzige said:
Which apparently you're willing to extend only to business owners.

This is absurd. I'm a libertarian. There's nothing here remotely connected to freedom of speech.
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It is as soon as someone advocates a law prohibiting such comments by anyone.
 
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