View Poll Results: Is this a breach of liberty?

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Thread: CEOs taking away political freedom of workers.

  1. #71
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    Re: CEOs taking away political freedom of workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chickenhawks View Post
    I would seize their companies, their money, kick them out of the country...


    we should probably fight a war over this...cant think of a better reason myself

    whenever I read a person who can barely afford mac and cheese for dinner talking down unions, I know the brainwashing worked.
    grab a gun and get to fightin', warrior.

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    Re: CEOs taking away political freedom of workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post


    Yet I guess libertarians will thing this is absolutely ok ... which goes to show, they don't care about liberty, they are all for private plutocratic tyrannies.
    You're an idiot. Its not a restriction of political freedom if he says that raising his taxes will force him to lay off workers. That's not the same as saying "vote for Romney or you're fired." YoungTurks is quite possibly the most satirical excuse for political news.

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    Re: CEOs taking away political freedom of workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Donahue View Post
    Why on earth would you not think tax rates impact hiring?

    I find it mind boggling.
    then we are in agreement that this topic boggles your mind
    here is an example
    employees' effort at the company results in a $1 million taxable income
    if the owner is taxed at 15% or if the tax rate is 85%, the tax rate had no bearing on the reality that the employees' efforts generated the taxable income
    whatever is lost to taxes is independent of the ability of the employees to generate revenue for the business
    now, in that example the business owner realizes $850,000 or $150,000, depending on tax rate, on that $1 million taxable income
    a net profit to the owner was realized despite the tax rate
    neither of those tax rates used in the example impacted the employees' ability to generate the $1 million taxable income
    thus, the tax rate has NO bearing on the employees required by the business
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  4. #74
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    Re: CEOs taking away political freedom of workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88
    That assumes you don't cross party lines.
    Quote Originally Posted by radcen
    Not every party-affiliated person votes strict party line. I, for one, never did when I associated myself with a party.
    Thats not important ... its still CEO's punishing workers for political affiliation.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD
    At 3:10, this guy talks about Murray Energy, the coal company where rumor had it that the miners were forced to go to a Romney Rally. That is blatantly false.

    The 24-Karat Tool, however, is as tooly as presented. He probably has Alzheimer's Disease.
    Where is that false? Show me a source ... I've heard it other places.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD
    Sue on what grounds? He's not saying he'll fire them in retaliation. He's saying he'll decide to go out of business and retire to a sunny beach. Different things.

    But let's just be honest here. The guy's a ****ing idiot.
    Whether or not he's a tool doesn't matter ... the fact is he's using his economic power to take away take away political freedom of workers, which shows that capitalism can and does take away freedom from people just as government can and does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine
    LOL..... You make a "guess" of what a libertarian would say....

    Then claim that your "guessed" conclusion SHOWS that Libertarians don't care about liberty and are all for private plutocratic tyranny.

    You don't get to make up your own GUESS about how others would feel and then claim that it shows (as if by some kind of proof) one of your prejudiced opinions about them.

    Get a clue.
    I make a guess based on a history of dealing with libertarians ...

    SO tell me how would a libertarian stop this kind of thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin
    LITERALLY, the king guy did NOT say "if you vote Obama I will fire you". He said "If Obama gets elected and I have to pay more taxes, I will have to downsize this company". The former would be interfering with an election... the latter is an expression of opinion, a prediction of what MAY happen, and a caution about same. Anyone, including CEO's, can express their opinion.

    Now if any employer ACTUALLY told their employees "Vote for X guy or be fired", I'd want him charged with felony violations of his employees Constitutional rights, to be sure. That doesn't quite appear to be what is going on this THIS particular case.

    Got to listen closely to what is REALLY being said, vs how it is being SPUN.
    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege
    You're an idiot. Its not a restriction of political freedom if he says that raising his taxes will force him to lay off workers. That's not the same as saying "vote for Romney or you're fired." YoungTurks is quite possibly the most satirical excuse for political news.
    He's saying if Obama gets elected he will fire employees ... NOT if the taxes are raised.

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    Re: CEOs taking away political freedom of workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Where is that false? Show me a source ... I've heard it other places.
    BEALLSVILLE - Coal miners at the American Energy Corp. Century Mine said they want President Barack Obama to stop what they term the war on coal - and to stop spreading mistruths about them.

    Miners gathered Friday afternoon to express their opposition to Obamas energy and environmental policies, which they believe threaten their jobs. Miner Mitch Miracle read aloud a letter the miners mailed to Obama that outlines some of their concerns.

    The miners said Obamas campaign team is running ads filled with blatantly false statements about the miners regarding their participation in Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romneys August campaign stop at the Century Mine. These ads assert that the miners were forced to attend the event by the mines owner, Robert Murray.
    Miners gathered Friday afternoon to express their opposition to Obamas energy and environmental policies, which they believe threaten their jobs. Miner Mitch Miracle read aloud a letter the miners mailed to Obama that outlines some of their concerns.

    The miners said Obamas campaign team is running ads filled with blatantly false statements about the miners regarding their participation in Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romneys August campaign stop at the Century Mine. These ads assert that the miners were forced to attend the event by the mines owner, Robert Murray.

    There are numerous false statements and absolute lies concerning our participation in this event, mostly started by a local shock jock radio host, the miners letter to Obama states. Why would you (Obama) lie about the 500 working miners who have signed this letter? We, the employees of the Century Mine would request you immediately stop these false ads.

    From the letter he read, “We voluntarily and enthusiastically attended the event and take great offense to the disingenuous reporting of the event by you and other media outlets.”

    Miracle said there were five points in the letter that needed to be acknowledged by media outlets, who have repeated the Obama narrative, and Bloomquist: 1. No workers were forced to attend the Romney rally, 2. No attendance records were kept at the rally for hourly employees, 3. There were no penalties or punishments for workers, who did not attend, 4. The Romney campaign advance requested list of names for security and transportation purposes.

    “And number five: It was an honor to host this important event for Governor Romney,” he said.

    Unlike Bloomquist’s unnamed sources, the miners at Century Mine signed their names and showed their faces, he said.

    “You see Mr. Bloomquist there is a war on coal and we do want to protect our jobs. Mining jobs are being eliminated and coal fired power plants are being shut down from the President Obama’s actions and policies,” he said.

    “This is our statement, our choices and our signatures,” he said.
    http://pushbacknow.net/2012/10/15/oh...absolute-lies/
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    Re: CEOs taking away political freedom of workers.

    Mitt Romney: Company defends decision to dock miners a day's pay after 'pressuring' them to attend a pro-coal rally | Mail Online

    I guess its he said she said ...

    The Los Angeles Times reports that when asked to comment, the mine's chief operating officer Robert Moore said 'Attendance was mandatory but no one was forced to attend'.
    'We are talking about an event that was in the best interest of anyone that's related to the coal industry in this area or the entire country,' Mr Moore continued.



    Read more: Mitt Romney: Company defends decision to dock miners a day's pay after 'pressuring' them to attend a pro-coal rally | Mail Online
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

  7. #77
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    Re: CEOs taking away political freedom of workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Your party registration is a matter of public record.
    Not everywhere.

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    Re: CEOs taking away political freedom of workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    then we are in agreement that this topic boggles your mind
    here is an example
    employees' effort at the company results in a $1 million taxable income
    if the owner is taxed at 15% or if the tax rate is 85%, the tax rate had no bearing on the reality that the employees' efforts generated the taxable income
    whatever is lost to taxes is independent of the ability of the employees to generate revenue for the business
    now, in that example the business owner realizes $850,000 or $150,000, depending on tax rate, on that $1 million taxable income
    a net profit to the owner was realized despite the tax rate
    neither of those tax rates used in the example impacted the employees' ability to generate the $1 million taxable income
    thus, the tax rate has NO bearing on the employees required by the business
    What you just explained describes why tax rates don't affect workers productivity.

    What I think you are missing:

    1) The employer lives, eats and breathes his company (if they are a good employer). They're the ones with the risks and the responsibility and frequently, the start up labor cost, risk, time and ideas to generate the company. If they do not feel that their efforts and risks are rewarded appropriately, say with a $150,000 salary vs an $850,000 salary, they may not continue to do their job. If they pay for work is low enough, no one with a high value will do the job, and the company will fall apart. OR the owner will find a way to increase their salary to make their job worth the money. They do this by cutting costs. Hence jobs are lost.

    2) If the company's net profit is $150k and was previously $850k, the growth potential of that company has just been significantly decreased. That money is primarily reinvested in the company. The owners do not generally (in good companies) take a majority of the net profit. The company stagnates, the growth slows or even halts entirely. New jobs aren't created.

    If you are satisfied with stagnating employment rates and median salaries being reduced, then yes, raise taxes. The only way to grow the economy while raising taxes would be a communist-type government where private industry is strictly controlled in all aspects or non-existent. However, if you wish to maintain liberty, taxes are not a solution.

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    Re: CEOs taking away political freedom of workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Thats not important ... its still CEO's punishing workers for political affiliation.
    i don't see it that way
    from my vantage he is warning his staff that if the candidate he opposes prevails, then economic consequences which result may cause the company to have to jettison workers

    Where is that false? Show me a source ... I've heard it other places.
    i would also want to see evidence which proves the coal miners were not obligated to attend that political function. i even saw that they were not compensated for the time they spent attending the event

    Whether or not he's a tool doesn't matter ... the fact is he's using his economic power to take away take away political freedom of workers, which shows that capitalism can and does take away freedom from people just as government can and does.
    he takes nothing away from any worker
    he is using his status as employer to force his staff to hear his pro-romney perspective
    but there is no abuse there (assuming he is paying his staff while they are attending that meeting)
    and there certainly is no taking away of personal freedoms
    not a single employee is prevented from exercising their rights because of his actions

    I make a guess based on a history of dealing with libertarians ...

    SO tell me how would a libertarian stop this kind of thing?
    you wrongly presume that there is anything which needs be stopped
    that employer has every right to engage in free speech
    he has done nothing wrong
    while i do not agree with his political position, it is incumbent on us to recognize he should in no way be deprived of his right to free speech

    He's saying if Obama gets elected he will fire employees ... NOT if the taxes are raised.
    and what is wrong with his saying that
    hell, there is nothing illegal about him actually doing that
    unless he is bound by contract, in a right to work state, and most others, he can terminate his employees for any reason other than those protected (race, ethnicity, religion, disability, age, marital status) including that the guy he wanted was not elected
    that would be an imprudent decision, but it is one, as business owner, he has the right to exercise

    freedom. what a concept [/s]
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: CEOs taking away political freedom of workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post


    Yet I guess libertarians will thing this is absolutely ok ... which goes to show, they don't care about liberty, they are all for private plutocratic tyrannies.

    If he actually told them: "If you vote for Obama, you're fired" then yes, he can and should be prosecuted.

    But that's not what he said. He said if taxes are levied, if his costs go up, he'll be forced to lay-off employees, which offset the higher cost of taxes. Just sound business to me. Perhaps Washington could use him!

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