View Poll Results: Is this a breach of liberty?

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  • Yes

    27 56.25%
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    21 43.75%
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Thread: CEOs taking away political freedom of workers.

  1. #31
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    Re: CEOs taking away political freedom of workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Einzige View Post
    An employer is not ethically at liberty to fire him 'at will' where the impetus is the employee's private life where it has no effect on the operations of the business. I'm aware of the 'at will' status of employment in most of the country. But this has its objective ethical limits, and these limits should be recognized legally.

    Coercion, be it State-sanctioned or privately enforced, is wrong.
    I would assume then, that you are completely and totally against non-secret union voting. Would that be yes? Because unions want to take away that right.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  2. #32
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    Re: CEOs taking away political freedom of workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I would assume then, that you are completely and totally against non-secret union voting. Would that be yes? Because unions want to take away that right.
    If it is a closed shop, yes. If it isn't a closed shop, then the employee isn't under any obligation to join the union and must abide by the rules of those organizations he voluntarily chooses to submit himself to. More pertinently, voting in a union election occurs within the group; the union member who votes in a union election votes as a union member. The employee who votes in a national election votes as a private citizen.

    The two things are not equivalent, and wishing will not make it so.
    I dip my forefinger in the watery blood of your impotent mad-redeemer (your Divine Democrat — your Hebrew Madman) and write over his thorn-torn brow, “The true prince of Evil — the king of the Slaves!”
    - Ragnar Redbeard, Might Is Right, 1890

  3. #33
    Why so serious?

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    Re: CEOs taking away political freedom of workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Einzige View Post
    The 'nonsense' is that actually firing the employees has anything to do with freedom of speech. It's a violation of the liberties of his employees, and justifies State intervention to vouchsafe those liberties.
    Who, besides you, is claiming that firing someone has anything to do with speech?
    "I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."

    --Albert Einstein, 1929

  4. #34
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    Re: CEOs taking away political freedom of workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    As RGacky3 mentioned, party affiliation is public. Also political campaign contributions. Political campaign volunteering although not officially published can be monitored. Yard signs, bumper stickers, etc. are all public.
    So what?

    Contrary to the nonsensical rantings of the political hack in the video none of the men mentioned actually said they are going to fire anyone for voting for Pres. Obama. What they did say was if Pres. Obama is re-elected and increases taxes as planned they will have no choice but to lay off some employees, etc. The only real question is WHAT THE HECK DID YOU THINK THEY WERE GOING TO DO?

  5. #35
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    Re: CEOs taking away political freedom of workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Unless an employee is under contract, an employer is free to fire him at will -- assuming the firing doesn't violate The Civil Rights Act. And political affiliation isn't covered under that act.
    Maybe I misunderstood the thread topic, but I read it as whether employers SHOULD be allowed to do such things, rather than whether they ARE allowed to do them. It seems to me that a person's voting preference absolutely should be protected from the whims of the employer, as it's anti-democratic to do otherwise. It violates the principle of one-person, one-vote if employers can essentially cast extra votes on their employee's behalf. And the employer's "freedom of speech" should not extend to voter intimidation for the same reasons it doesn't allow him to sexually harass his employees.
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  6. #36
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    Re: CEOs taking away political freedom of workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    Who, besides you, is claiming that firing someone has anything to do with speech?
    MaggieD, for one, until she shifted the goalposts.
    I dip my forefinger in the watery blood of your impotent mad-redeemer (your Divine Democrat — your Hebrew Madman) and write over his thorn-torn brow, “The true prince of Evil — the king of the Slaves!”
    - Ragnar Redbeard, Might Is Right, 1890

  7. #37
    Why so serious?

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    Re: CEOs taking away political freedom of workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Einzige View Post
    MaggieD, for one, until she shifted the goalposts.
    You'll have to post it, because I don't see where she said that at all.
    "I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."

    --Albert Einstein, 1929

  8. #38
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    Re: CEOs taking away political freedom of workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Einzige View Post
    If it is a closed shop, yes. If it isn't a closed shop, then the employee isn't under any obligation to join the union and must abide by the rules of those organizations he voluntarily chooses to submit himself to. More pertinently, voting in a union election occurs within the group; the union member who votes in a union election votes as a union member. The employee who votes in a national election votes as a private citizen.

    The two things are not equivalent, and wishing will not make it so.
    The legislation (that failed, by the way, but will probably be brought up again if Obama wins; and still won't pass) applies to forming unions within a company. The union wants to know who's voting against forming a union so they can be pressured by their peers into changing their vote next time. Card Check is its name.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  9. #39
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    Re: CEOs taking away political freedom of workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    The legislation (that failed, by the way, but will probably be brought up again if Obama wins; and still won't pass) applies to forming unions within a company. The union wants to know who's voting against forming a union so they can be pressured by their peers into changing their vote next time. Card Check is its name.
    I know.

    EDIT: If the aim is to create a closed shop, then it ought to be opposed. If there is no intent to create a closed shop, I hardly see a reason to oppose it.
    I dip my forefinger in the watery blood of your impotent mad-redeemer (your Divine Democrat — your Hebrew Madman) and write over his thorn-torn brow, “The true prince of Evil — the king of the Slaves!”
    - Ragnar Redbeard, Might Is Right, 1890

  10. #40
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    Re: CEOs taking away political freedom of workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    You'll have to post it, because I don't see where she said that at all.
    Let me help. Here's where he's coming from:

    Originally Posted by jamesrage
    This is a breach of liberty.Employers have no business extorting their employees to vote a particular way.This should be a criminal offense with a mandatory minimum of 5 years in a real prison and the company seriously fined.

    Then MaggieD posted (that's me!): Nonsense. Freedom of Speech.
    I wasn't, obviously, associating freedom of speech with firing anyone -- just that the employer had the right to say it. If you read some of my earlier posts, you'll see that I think the guy's a jackass for saying it, by the way.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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