View Poll Results: Is this a breach of liberty?

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Thread: CEOs taking away political freedom of workers.

  1. #21
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    Re: CEOs taking away political freedom of workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Nonsense. Freedom of Speech.
    Freedom of speech is not a carte blanche to coerce one's workers into doing whatever one wants them to do. Just as freedom of speech does not enable a manager to tell his employees "have sex with me or you're fired," it shouldn't give him the right to tell his employees "vote for my candidate or you're fired." Or anything even approximating that.
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  2. #22
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    Re: CEOs taking away political freedom of workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Nonsense. Freedom of Speech.
    Which apparently you're willing to extend only to business owners.

    This is absurd. I'm a libertarian. There's nothing here remotely connected to freedom of speech.
    I dip my forefinger in the watery blood of your impotent mad-redeemer (your Divine Democrat — your Hebrew Madman) and write over his thorn-torn brow, “The true prince of Evil — the king of the Slaves!”
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  3. #23
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    Re: CEOs taking away political freedom of workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Einzige View Post
    Which apparently you're willing to extend only to business owners.

    This is absurd. I'm a libertarian. There's nothing here remotely connected to freedom of speech.
    No, I'm willing to extend it to anyone. Why do you say that? Unions are particularly good at utilizing freedom of speech to encourage their members to vote for Obama. What do you think they're telling their membership when they go knock on their doors this time of year?

    What does your being a libertarian have to do with this? Is freedom of speech different for libertarians?
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  4. #24
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    Re: CEOs taking away political freedom of workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    No, I'm willing to extend it to anyone. Why do you say that? Unions are particularly good at utilizing freedom of speech to encourage their members to vote for Obama. What do you think they're telling their membership when they go knock on their doors this time of year?
    Unions can't fire you.

    Incidentally, this "liberals do it, so we can, too" moral relativism is especially unimpressive coming from moral absolutists.

    What does your being a libertarian have to do with this? Is freedom of speech different for libertarians?
    Freedom of speech is consistent for libertarians (conservatives having never cared much for the concept, unless it's a religious organization being 'threatened'). For us, the concept is grounded in a specific praxis.

    Telling your employees to vote for a candidate is freedom of speech. Firing an employee for not doing it is not speech at all.

    Most libertarians - and I don't mean "I'm a Republican who likes to smoke pot", but a consistent philosophical libertarian - would look at this and go "that's not freedom of speech; it's an infringement on the employees' freedom of expression".
    I dip my forefinger in the watery blood of your impotent mad-redeemer (your Divine Democrat — your Hebrew Madman) and write over his thorn-torn brow, “The true prince of Evil — the king of the Slaves!”
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  5. #25
    Why so serious?

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    Re: CEOs taking away political freedom of workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Einzige View Post
    Which apparently you're willing to extend only to business owners.

    This is absurd. I'm a libertarian. There's nothing here remotely connected to freedom of speech.
    It is as soon as someone advocates a law prohibiting such comments by anyone.
    "I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."

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  6. #26
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    Re: CEOs taking away political freedom of workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    It is as soon as someone advocates a law prohibiting such comments by anyone.
    They can comment to their hearts' content. The moment they actually engage in firing someone, it ceases to be an expression of speech and becomes an infringement on the liberties of the individual. And the individual is always - always - more important than the collective. And 'the collective' includes corporations.
    I dip my forefinger in the watery blood of your impotent mad-redeemer (your Divine Democrat — your Hebrew Madman) and write over his thorn-torn brow, “The true prince of Evil — the king of the Slaves!”
    - Ragnar Redbeard, Might Is Right, 1890

  7. #27
    Why so serious?

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    Re: CEOs taking away political freedom of workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Einzige View Post
    They can comment to their hearts' content. The moment they actually engage in firing someone, it ceases to be an expression of speech and becomes an infringement on the liberties of the individual. And the individual is always - always - more important than the collective. And 'the collective' includes corporations.
    As long as we got past the nonsense that this has nothing to do with freedom of speech. Actions against another are not speech.
    "I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."

    --Albert Einstein, 1929

  8. #28
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    Re: CEOs taking away political freedom of workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    As long as we got past the nonsense that this has nothing to do with freedom of speech. Actions against another are not speech.
    The 'nonsense' is that actually firing the employees has anything to do with freedom of speech. It's a violation of the liberties of his employees, and justifies State intervention to vouchsafe those liberties.
    I dip my forefinger in the watery blood of your impotent mad-redeemer (your Divine Democrat — your Hebrew Madman) and write over his thorn-torn brow, “The true prince of Evil — the king of the Slaves!”
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  9. #29
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    Re: CEOs taking away political freedom of workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Einzige View Post
    They can comment to their hearts' content. The moment they actually engage in firing someone, it ceases to be an expression of speech and becomes an infringement on the liberties of the individual. And the individual is always - always - more important than the collective. And 'the collective' includes corporations.
    Unless an employee is under contract, an employer is free to fire him at will -- assuming the firing doesn't violate The Civil Rights Act. And political affiliation isn't covered under that act.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  10. #30
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    Re: CEOs taking away political freedom of workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Unless an employee is under contract, an employer is free to fire him at will -- assuming the firing doesn't violate The Civil Rights Act. And political affiliation isn't covered under that act.
    An employer is not ethically at liberty to fire him 'at will' where the impetus is the employee's private life where it has no effect on the operations of the business. I'm aware of the 'at will' status of employment in most of the country. But this has its objective ethical limits, and these limits should be recognized legally.

    Coercion, be it State-sanctioned or privately enforced, is wrong.
    I dip my forefinger in the watery blood of your impotent mad-redeemer (your Divine Democrat — your Hebrew Madman) and write over his thorn-torn brow, “The true prince of Evil — the king of the Slaves!”
    - Ragnar Redbeard, Might Is Right, 1890

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