View Poll Results: Should the country (taxes) pay for women's contraception?

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  • Yes

    45 38.46%
  • No

    72 61.54%
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Thread: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

  1. #81
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    So, we have established, before contraceptives were widespread, women weren't dying before their reproductive days were up. Family planning was still possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    This is good it touches on things that have improved life expectancy worldwide. . . one such very important factor are immunizations to protect against diseases that can be deadly - like the measels.

    In the 1950's the average life expectancy was 50 years for developed countries - 33 years for developings countries - and 28 years for undeveloped countries.

    Projections at the time of this briefing were for 2005 - putting 30% of deaths are cardiovascular - 30% are Communicable diseases including maternal and perinatal causes as well as nutritional deficiencies.

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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krystov View Post
    I say no. Being able to get these things at the expense of others not only enables bad behavior, but reinforces the entitlement ideology. Men and women should take responsibility for their decisions, not get a free ride to be irresponsible.
    Although I agree with you fundamentally...I voted yes and heres why. Sex is one behavior no one can change, its the strongest emotion if not one of the strongest. So if you cant stop sexual behavior...we all have to pay for the results of it...which the costs of are far far higher....its a damned if you do damned if you dont situation.

    Its very similar to the thousands of people that choose prision over being homeless..at a cost of 100,000 a yr plus and choose prison to get care for a health problem because they have no insurance... one sick convict costs MILLIONS of taxpayer dollars....I know conservatives hate to hear this...but sorry folks its THE PURE TRUTH....

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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Some women used contraceptives in the 1950's. They didn't become widely available until after 1965.

    The entire concept of the family and female sexuality changed at that time, hence the whole women's liberation movement of the 60's/70's.

    I bring it up to point out that family planning was possible before the widespread availability of contraceptives.
    Condoms are contraception, and so is sterilization. Both were widely available.

    I never argued against that. But as you'll note, fertility was MUCH higher. Two reasons.

    1. Contraception, while available, was less effective (sterilization not withstanding, although that was major surgery at the time).

    2. Women had almost no control over their own lives, so they had as many children as their husbands decided to put in them. Women today have a lot less, because now they have the social ability to decide.

    So arguing that women were "more responsible" about their childbearing, when they had twice as many children, those children were more likely to die, and poverty was far more crushing, is frankly hilarious.

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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Adam Smith remarked that "the most decisive mark of the prosperity of any country is the increase of the number of its inhabitants."

    Livi-Bacci observed, "All things being equal, population increase leads to increased per capita production."

    Mark Steyn notes in America Alone, "There is no precedent in human history for economic growth on declining human capital."

    Simon Smith Kuznets won the Nobel Prize in economics for his theory of "tested knowledge." As Kuznets explained: "More population means more creators and producers, both of goods along established production patterns and of new knowledge and inventions."


    So much for the theory that population control is good for society.

    So China & India are the greatest places on Earth?

    Surely there's a limit on how many people is enough.

    7 Billions isn't enough?

    Clean water, food, energy, and such...

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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krystov View Post
    I say no. Being able to get these things at the expense of others not only enables bad behavior, but reinforces the entitlement ideology. Men and women should take responsibility for their decisions, not get a free ride to be irresponsible.
    I'm going to disagree (that's right, the libertarian leaner disagrees). If we eradicated every form of welfare/entitlement, this would be the last to go, if it were up to me. Same goes for vasectomies and other sterilization procedures. Availing contraceptives to women leaves young adults with much less excuse as to why they need more freebies, i.e. "I got pregnant and then X, Y, Z happened and now here I am, single mom, no education, woe is me..."

    I do not agree that contraceptives enable "bad behavior" in any significant way. Especially relative to the other entitlements out there.

    Pick your battles. Start with the real problem. That would be Medicare.

  6. #86
    Why so serious?

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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    No. There should be some minimal level of personal responsibility that we as taxpayers should demand of the people living in this country. Paying for one's own birth control should be the responsibility of the person engaging in that optional, recreational activity.
    "I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."

    --Albert Einstein, 1929

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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Fertility was higher because I used the 1950's as an example. This was the baby boom era, when all the men came back from the war and "got busy."

    Look at the 20's or 30's then. Fertility rates were the same as today's, and average life expectancy for women was still beyond reproductive years.

    Condoms weren't widely available at that time either.

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Condoms are contraception, and so is sterilization. Both were widely available.

    I never argued against that. But as you'll note, fertility was MUCH higher. Two reasons.

    1. Contraception, while available, was less effective (sterilization not withstanding, although that was major surgery at the time).

    2. Women had almost no control over their own lives, so they had as many children as their husbands decided to put in them. Women today have a lot less, because now they have the social ability to decide.

    So arguing that women were "more responsible" about their childbearing, when they had twice as many children, those children were more likely to die, and poverty was far more crushing, is frankly hilarious.

  8. #88
    global liberation

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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    So China & India are the greatest places on Earth?

    Surely there's a limit on how many people is enough.

    7 Billions isn't enough?

    Clean water, food, energy, and such...
    Adam Smith lived before population became an issue. I dunno about Livi and I'm guessing Steyn is Catholic and Kuznets I don't recall exactly.


    Point being, listening to people about population being all good, who lived before it even became a problem, is ludicrous.

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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    The economic argument isn't that a high population is good, it's that a growing population is good.

    China and India are probably overpopulated. The United States is not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    So China & India are the greatest places on Earth?

    Surely there's a limit on how many people is enough.

    7 Billions isn't enough?

    Clean water, food, energy, and such...

  10. #90
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Convince me that it's a problem. China and India may be overpopulated. The United States and Australia could double or triple their population and be just fine.

    You know we pay farmers to NOT grow crops in this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Adam Smith lived before population became an issue. I dunno about Livi and I'm guessing Steyn is Catholic and Kuznets I don't recall exactly.


    Point being, listening to people about population being all good, who lived before it even became a problem, is ludicrous.

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