View Poll Results: Should the country (taxes) pay for women's contraception?

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  • Yes

    45 38.46%
  • No

    72 61.54%
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Thread: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

  1. #411
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Is it the right and moral thing to do, to take from those who make good decisions and are responsible, to give to those who do not. Imo, no. It's not right and moral to sacrifice the productive and hard-working, for those who are not. In fact, I consider that not only wrong, but stupid. Whatever you pay for grows, and what you neglect shrinks. We're seeing it happen in our country right now, to our eventual detriment.
    When it concerns poor people the evidence that the bold is true is flipped upside down. History shows that there were far more poor people than rich "successful" people. Indeed the difference between poor and rich was far larger than it is today, at least in the US. Of course even today you can see this also. Just look at third world countries where there is no welfare programs like we have in the States.

    As for it being moral or not to take from the rich to feed the poor? I think it is. Most rich people are rich because of the poor. Not in spite of them. It is the poor people that do all the jobs that the rich deem are beneath them. It is the poor that parks the rich peoples cars or open the doors for a rich hotel owners guests. It is the poor that pick up garbage. Clean rich peoples homes and buisnesses. etc etc. I could go on and on. Without the poor people the rich would not be able to be rich. Rich people always forget that simple little fact.
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  2. #412
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    I am anything but greedy, but I am choosy with regard to whom I help. I will not help someone who refuses to help himself, as it doesn't really help him at all. I will gladly help someone who is giving it all they can to make it in life.
    You cannot make that distinction without getting to know the person first, which takes years to properly get to know someone. Are you really able to meet the millions of poor people in the US and make that determination?
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  3. #413
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    You cannot make that distinction without getting to know the person first, which takes years to properly get to know someone. Are you really able to meet the millions of poor people in the US and make that determination?
    Ummm, no. It does not take years to look at someone and figure out if they are trying to make it on their own.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Ummm, no. It does not take years to look at someone and figure out if they are trying to make it on their own.
    There's an old saying..."You can't judge a book by its cover". I know people think that they can. But you honestly can't.
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    As for it being moral or not to take from the rich to feed the poor? I think it is. Most rich people are rich because of the poor. Not in spite of them. It is the poor people that do all the jobs that the rich deem are beneath them. It is the poor that parks the rich peoples cars or open the doors for a rich hotel owners guests. It is the poor that pick up garbage. Clean rich peoples homes and buisnesses. etc etc. I could go on and on. Without the poor people the rich would not be able to be rich. Rich people always forget that simple little fact.
    No. Theft is wrong no matter how you want to justify it. People have a natural inclination to help the poor without government forcing them to. What we are doing is creating a huge dependent underclass, which is a different concept from "the poor". The poor weren't historically wards of the state, but honest hard-working people who had work ethic and pride in themselves, and in the jobs they did. Don't confuse them with the dependent welfare class we have today.
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    No. Theft is wrong no matter how you want to justify it. People have a natural inclination to help the poor without government forcing them to. What we are doing is creating a huge dependent underclass, which is a different concept from "the poor". The poor weren't historically wards of the state, but honest hard-working people who had work ethic and pride in themselves, and in the jobs they did. Don't confuse them with the dependent welfare class we have today.
    Nothing is being stolen. Taxes =/= stealing.

    Bold: You're right they do. That is obvious in the fact that we have charities and government programs that help people. Those could not come about unless there was an inclination to help poor people.

    But it should also be noted that people are more often than not prejudiced in who they help. And most of the time that prejudice has nothing what so ever to do with a persons ability or non-ability or how hard they try or not try.
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Deserving or not is beside the point. Do those in prison deserve to be housed and fed and educated? Why should those in prison get all those things and yet someone thats followed the law not get those things? And seriously, the whole concept that poor people are all lazy needs to go. I would bet that the majority of poor folks do indeed work hard. Unfortenately it is always the few that truely do not try that get all the attention.

    The point is that it is the right thing to do. It is the moral thing to do. It is the compassionate thing to do. There is more to life than money. IMO Those that think that we should stop helping those that are poor are just plain greedy and self centered.
    It depends on what you mean by "deserve". Have they done anything to actually earn such a thing? If so, I don't know what it is. Further, you're making a moral argument and most times, people make moral arguments that simply make them feel good, not that are well-thought out or rationally derived. Who says it's the right thing? Who says it's moral? Where do you get that information?
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    It depends on what you mean by "deserve". Have they done anything to actually earn such a thing? If so, I don't know what it is. Further, you're making a moral argument and most times, people make moral arguments that simply make them feel good, not that are well-thought out or rationally derived. Who says it's the right thing? Who says it's moral? Where do you get that information?
    Oh please, the other side uses the moral arguement all the time also. Indeed the very use of "deserving" implies morality just in itself. Not to mention the use of "No. Theft is wrong no matter how you want to justify it." when refering to taxes being used to help poor people being a morally based arguement. (lizzie just said those exact words)
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  9. #419
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Deserving or not is beside the point. Do those in prison deserve to be housed and fed and educated? Why should those in prison get all those things and yet someone thats followed the law not get those things? And seriously, the whole concept that poor people are all lazy needs to go. I would bet that the majority of poor folks do indeed work hard. Unfortenately it is always the few that truely do not try that get all the attention.

    The point is that it is the right thing to do. It is the moral thing to do. It is the compassionate thing to do. There is more to life than money. IMO Those that think that we should stop helping those that are poor are just plain greedy and self centered.
    Helping the poor isn't a bad thing in itself, but with the regulation we have currently, the poor can take advantage of the system. Rather than do away with social programs all together, simply tighten the requirements to qualify. That way, the poor who are actually trying, working hard, don't get penalized and still get the support they need. The lazy poor on the other hand, get cut off. That will either force them to start giving a damn, or live with the consequences.

    Any way we look at it, people have to be held accountable and need to be responsible. Giving out more freebies does not reinforce that notion. In fact, it tells people they don't have to try so hard because someone will help them if they fail. People need to try their hardest not to fail for fear of the consequences, not be okay with it because of this all encompassing safety net.
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Oh please, the other side uses the moral arguement all the time also. Indeed the very use of "deserving" implies morality just in itself. Not to mention the use of "No. Theft is wrong no matter how you want to justify it." when refering to taxes being used to help poor people being a morally based arguement. (lizzie just said those exact words)
    I'm not one of those people. If you want to debate those subjects with them, go for it. I just asked you a question, one that you entirely dodged.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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