View Poll Results: Should the country (taxes) pay for women's contraception?

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  • Yes

    45 38.46%
  • No

    72 61.54%
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Thread: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

  1. #301
    Advisor Krystov's Avatar
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChunkySalsa View Post
    You failed to understand my argument. My point was that they fall within that [sarcasm]blighted[/sarcasm] 47% because they have children. Devoid of that handicap, a significant fraction ("hundreds of thousands" out of "millions") would be capable of bettering themselves and obtaining jobs where they do pay income taxes. I should also mention that many would not be claiming the children tax credit, which would bump quite a few of them above the arbitrary threshold of your loathing.

    You are ignoring the facts in this matter. The speed of light is c, the sun rises in the east, and people have sex. These are objective observations of reality that we must take into account when formulating our policies. No matter how much you wish it was otherwise or how loudly you harangue their folly, photons will not travel any faster than c and people will not stop having sex.

    Your ultimate goal is to moderate what you perceive to be unwarranted expenditures. Will you fruitlessly persist with hysterics and impotently fume at this stalemate when liberals thwart your attempts to amputate these people from the budget? Wouldn't it be a more effective expenditure of your energies to acknowledge how little headway you will make in that direction and instead act to quell these unmitigated indiscretions? Stop reveling so much in your loathing and disdain for these people and instead do something that can undoubtedly do something to diminish the foundation of that hatred.
    The sun sets and people get drunk, then drive into a tree. Should I be held responsible for their medical bill? Or their bail? It's the same concept here: take responsibility. It is not my responsibility to make people make the right decisions and I'm certainly not going to spend my time looking out for them. This nanny state ideology, the entitlement ideology is what breeds (no pun intended) people that feel I owe them something for their circumstances. You don't like it? DO something about it. Most people don't.

    I don't see what the speed of light and observational truths come into play here. I'm aware that people will have sex no matter what, but those people should either be aware of the consequences, or take responsibility for them should they fail to be aware of them. It is not my fault and therefor not my responsibility to help prevent it or pay for the care afterwards.

    "Amputate" them from the budget is EXACTLY what needs to happen. If they're cut off they'll shape up and make a difference, if not they'll be homeless and will have no one to blame but themselves.
    "Only the dead have seen the end of war..." -Plato

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  2. #302
    Advisor Krystov's Avatar
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    I agree with that. In the mean time, don't we have to deal with reality?
    The reality is that people expect free stuff from the government because we've been giving more and more of it away at the expense of our own citizens. The reality is that these people need a swift kick in the ass to get them back in gear, not more free stuff to show them they can keep doing nothing and live that way on someone else's dime.
    "Only the dead have seen the end of war..." -Plato

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelJR
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  3. #303
    Advisor Krystov's Avatar
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    No I'm not. The stupidity of calling contraceptive use "bad behavior" is totally separate from the issue of whether or not we should provide it to impoverished women. I was simply pointing out that it is, indeed, stupidity.

    We should provide it to impoverished women because it's economically and socially prudent to do so, and because poor people are entitled to a certain standard of quality of life too, which is why we have medical care for the poor to begin with.
    The stupidity of you thinking I said using contraceptives was "bad behavior" proves you didn't read everything that was said. The bad behavior is having sex irresponsibly.
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  4. #304
    Advisor Krystov's Avatar
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    A classmate of mine mentioned an interesting point. Most of these poor people who would require aid in the purchase of contraceptives either smoke or drink, or both. I don't want to hear that they can't afford birth control. It is irresponsible to expect aid from the rest of society when one purchases the unnecessary.
    "Only the dead have seen the end of war..." -Plato

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelJR
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  5. #305
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krystov View Post
    What are you talking about? The poor do not pay for the rich's insurance premiums (if they even care to get insurance). If anything, it's the rich that make insurance available to anyone at all.
    Its like this.

    the poor "pay" with their lives because they are NOT ALLOWED to get HC. 26,000 deaths each year.

    The rich "free ride" becasue they close off and get ALL the HC that there is.......................

    The hypocricy of the rich knows no end......

    " it's the rich that make insurance available to anyone at all."

    The n show us all the REAL AFFORDABLE insurance at your average retailer..........LMAO

  6. #306
    Advisor Krystov's Avatar
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by 274ina View Post
    Its like this.

    the poor "pay" with their lives because they are NOT ALLOWED to get HC. 26,000 deaths each year.

    The rich "free ride" becasue they close off and get ALL the HC that there is.......................

    The hypocricy of the rich knows no end......

    " it's the rich that make insurance available to anyone at all."

    The n show us all the REAL AFFORDABLE insurance at your average retailer..........LMAO
    Are you insane? Everyone is allowed to get insurance. If you can't afford it that's your own problem. As for pre-existing conditions, I don't really agree with the ability to reject people on this premise, but you're basically telling a business to take everyone, even if it's not a smart business decision.

    Free ride? Really? Healthcare is not a basket of bagels that the rich simply hog all to themselves.

    If you have a JOB, and you're working enough for the employer to care about your health, you can get health insurance. But wait! Your beloved Obamacare puts even more undue stress on the businesses that provide the healthcare, meaning they drop employees, cut hours, and cut coverage just to afford it. Putting undue stress on business in the middle of a recession, on the edge of a depression, is not a smart idea.

    Oh yeah, I get dental and eyecare for about 40 bucks a month. I don't pay for primary health care because Obamacare made it so I could stay on my mom's policy. But that doesn't mean that I couldn't find affordable health care.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelJR
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  7. #307
    User Anrch-Cptlst's Avatar
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    The Public Costs of Births Resulting from Unintended Pregnancies: National and State-Level Estimates - Sonfield - 2011 - Perspectives on Sexual and Reproductive Health - Wiley Online Library

    I cannot access the the report Guttmacher is quoting.

    So, some thoughtful guesses? Welfare, WIC, food stamps. Many women who have unintended pregnancies cannot pay for their prenatal care, if they get it. Cannot pay for the delivery, so they apply for Medicaid and what they won't pay, the hospital writes off and passes along to the rest of us. I just mentioned Medicaid, another tax payer provided program. Then going forward, if there is no insurance, when the child is sick, that's another hit on Medicaid or a hospital write off. These are just a few off the top of my head. I would really like to read that paper though.

    The Public Costs of Births Resulting from Unintended Pregnancies: National and State-Level Estimates - Sonfield - 2011 - Perspectives on Sexual and Reproductive Health - Wiley Online Library
    WIC, Welfare, Food Stamps, Medacaid... lol all these thing need to be dismantled or privatized. So going back to should public dollars be used for contraception, no it is the womens reponsibility not everyone elses
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  8. #308
    Educator / Liar Champion ab9924's Avatar
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anrch-Cptlst View Post
    WIC, Welfare, Food Stamps, Medacaid... lol all these thing need to be dismantled or privatized. So going back to should public dollars be used for contraception, no it is the womens reponsibility not everyone elses
    Okay, dismantled, maybe, but PRIVATIZED? Maybe someday someone will explain to me what is good about these privatization hypes. That upon elimination of the services we also ENTITLE a certain group of investors to the market segment and capitalization? Total nonsense I'm afraid. I guess some people just love losing money.

  9. #309
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krystov View Post
    I say no. Being able to get these things at the expense of others not only enables bad behavior, but reinforces the entitlement ideology. Men and women should take responsibility for their decisions, not get a free ride to be irresponsible.
    It depends. IF we are forced to pay for the children that come about when they get knocked up I say yes. IN an ideal world we would not have to pay for other peoples' children but as Viktyr correctly notes, its much cheaper/

    its why I support abortion rights too

  10. #310
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krystov View Post
    The sun sets and people get drunk, then drive into a tree. Should I be held responsible for their medical bill? Or their bail? It's the same concept here: take responsibility. It is not my responsibility to make people make the right decisions and I'm certainly not going to spend my time looking out for them. This nanny state ideology, the entitlement ideology is what breeds (no pun intended) people that feel I owe them something for their circumstances. You don't like it? DO something about it. Most people don't.

    I don't see what the speed of light and observational truths come into play here. I'm aware that people will have sex no matter what, but those people should either be aware of the consequences, or take responsibility for them should they fail to be aware of them. It is not my fault and therefor not my responsibility to help prevent it or pay for the care afterwards.

    "Amputate" them from the budget is EXACTLY what needs to happen. If they're cut off they'll shape up and make a difference, if not they'll be homeless and will have no one to blame but themselves.
    If uninsured drunken drivers crash, destroy public infrastructure and die in the process, should your tax dollars go towards repairs? Or would you prefer not to repair the damages and content yourself by complaining that the dead drunk should have been more responsible? You might be able to get by on smug moralism, but the rest of society would prefer to have those power lines repaired.

    I totally agree that people should be more aware of the consequences of unprotected sex. The point is that they AREN'T taking responsibility and grumbling about it isn't going to change that. It doesn't matter if it isn't your fault, you're still going to have to pay for educating those kids and/or hiring more police to stop them from breaking into your house and building more prisons to throw them into afterwards.

    Go ahead and lobby to cut them from the budget. I'm sure they'll all just go "Oh, I'm homeless. Must be all my fault. I'll just find someplace far away from Krystov to rot to death. Wouldn't want to riot in the streets and actively attempt to tear down the society that kicked me to the curb. Sure is a good thing people like radical terrorists don't attempt to recruit angry marginalized youths."

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