View Poll Results: Should the country (taxes) pay for women's contraception?

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  • Yes

    45 38.46%
  • No

    72 61.54%
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Thread: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

  1. #281
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krystov View Post
    I think it means "don't have sex unless you can afford the preventative tools, or are prepared for the consequences".

    Your argument about taxpayers is invalid. They reside within the 47% of people who don't pay taxes. As with people who mooch the system, people who make money and pay taxes who also need welfare are also in the minority. The country is only spending money on that 47%, not making any.

    It's not that I want to subject people to less than desirable circumstances, it's that I want people to take responsibility for themselves. Show them that there are real, negative consequences for irresponsibility (financially and sexually) so that they're afraid to be put in that position. This all encompassing safety net we've developed removes that fear and people stop caring if they fall into poverty. 12 million more people are on social care programs now than there were 4 years ago. We can attribute most of that to the economy, but there are those that simply say, "well I can get something for free, so why not?".
    You failed to understand my argument. My point was that they fall within that [sarcasm]blighted[/sarcasm] 47% because they have children. Devoid of that handicap, a significant fraction ("hundreds of thousands" out of "millions") would be capable of bettering themselves and obtaining jobs where they do pay income taxes. I should also mention that many would not be claiming the children tax credit, which would bump quite a few of them above the arbitrary threshold of your loathing.

    You are ignoring the facts in this matter. The speed of light is c, the sun rises in the east, and people have sex. These are objective observations of reality that we must take into account when formulating our policies. No matter how much you wish it was otherwise or how loudly you harangue their folly, photons will not travel any faster than c and people will not stop having sex.

    Your ultimate goal is to moderate what you perceive to be unwarranted expenditures. Will you fruitlessly persist with hysterics and impotently fume at this stalemate when liberals thwart your attempts to amputate these people from the budget? Wouldn't it be a more effective expenditure of your energies to acknowledge how little headway you will make in that direction and instead act to quell these unmitigated indiscretions? Stop reveling so much in your loathing and disdain for these people and instead do something that can undoubtedly do something to diminish the foundation of that hatred.

  2. #282
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krystov View Post
    How about getting people off of the entitlement ideology and onto a responsibility ideology, so these people care for their own children?
    I agree with that. In the mean time, don't we have to deal with reality?

  3. #283
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Donahue View Post
    Of course it's best not to have children you can't afford.

    The problem is two fold:

    (1) You two support policies that encourage financially unstable people to have children.
    (2) You two support policies that discourage financially unstable parents from getting needed jobs to support their families.

    You two make it sound as though pregnancy is an infectious disease that someone simply catches. The reality is you have to actively do something, often many times, to become pregnant. Stop doing it if you can't afford to do it.
    No - I support providing all forms of contraception - including to males who might become fathers! Contraception isn't JUST for females and it's not JUST A female concern.
    I support abortion.
    I support people just NOT having kids that they can't take care of - I support providing support so they can further their education if necessary and find more solid employment.

    Yep - I support helping people out a little bit so that they can become more financially stable and then won't NEED support.

    Your lack of support isn't going to STOP people from having SEX. But you think it will. No matter what you WANT people to do - sex is going to be had. It's just the reality of things.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 10-17-12 at 09:24 AM.
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  4. #284
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    I have no problem with socializing basic services.
    Even for those who don't need it socialized?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    The difference, as I read in the article, is that women were offered long term birth control, like the implant and IUD's. Those are not part of what is offered to low income women, at this time.
    If this mandate, were just about giving poor women better access to birth control, I wouldn't quibble all that much.
    With that said, it gives all women subsidized birth control, without regard to their ability to pay.

    So millionaire, other upper income and middle class women get something for "free" that they could already easily afford.
    It makes 0 sense.
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 10-17-12 at 09:50 AM.
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  6. #286
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hare View Post
    It's not exactly a disparaging remark, just a quip regarding how far behind the eight ball we are in this respect. An overwhelming chunk of the developed world have turned to single payer or other publicly funded healthcare systems due to cost concerns. We've held out for this long due to outdated thinking and managing to disregard virtually every empirical study on the subject.
    We have a constitution and need to follow it. This isn't about bleeding hearts. No one is owed contraceptives. We're not behind at all, we don't subscribed to the notion. In YOUR opinion our thinking is outdated, but not in mine. This country wasn't built on big state programs until modern liberalism took hold. That doesn't make it good thinking, good for the country, or good political principles.
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    If the program only involved 'poor' folks, which tends to be poorly defined, then some 'conservatives' will vent their spleen on the 'welfare queens' and subsidized slatterns who are a minority. Spread the cost over millions of people, include rather than exclude and a program becomes a winner to the public.

    Imagine if 'millionaire' homeowners were stripped of their tax write offs for interest? if only 'poor' folks get to deduct medical costs...

    How about if we deny Social Security payments to millionaires...

    I marvel at those who claim birth control is easily affordable by a few but grouse at the few dollars extra if we all pay for it...

    I wish we did more to make birth control acceptable as a good thing for the nation.

  8. #288
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    If this mandate, were just about giving poor women better access to birth control, I wouldn't quibble all that much.
    With that said, it gives all women subsidized birth control, without regard to their ability to pay.

    The millionaires, upper and middle class women get something for "free" that they could already easily afford.
    It makes 0 sense.
    Most millionairairs,upper and middle class citizens that can already "afford" Birth control usually have good health insurance with low co -pays.
    THe insurance companies are the ones absorbing the difference between the co pay and no co pay. Your tax payers dollars are NOT paying for their Birth control for those with insurance.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

  9. #289
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Most millionairairs,upper and middle class citizens that can already "afford" Birth control usually have good health insurance with low co -pays.
    THe insurance companies are the ones absorbing the difference between the co pay and no co pay. Your tax payers dollars are NOT paying for their Birth control for those with insurance.
    Yes but the cost sharing arrangement is changed.
    All plans, regardless of the gender of the covered, must cover female birth control, all plans regardless of the want, need or ability of the individual insurance consumer, must cover the cost of birth control, even if one does not want it.

    It doesn't make sense.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  10. #290
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Yes but the cost sharing arrangement is changed.
    All plans, regardless of the gender of the covered, must cover female birth control, all plans regardless of the want, need or ability of the individual insurance consumer, must cover the cost of birth control, even if one does not want it.

    It doesn't make sense.
    Most health insurance already covers the cost of pregnancy and childbirth.

    In 2007 the average cost of a "normal" pregnancy and childbirth was $7,600.

    Pregnancy Health Coverage - How Much of My Pregnancy Costs Will My Insurance Cover?

    THe cost of covering co-pays for BC on those already insured is much, much less.

    I would think the insurance companies will actually be saving money.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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