View Poll Results: Should the country (taxes) pay for women's contraception?

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  • Yes

    45 38.46%
  • No

    72 61.54%
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Thread: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

  1. #181
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krystov View Post
    There are a few parts to this. No, I don't want more moochers being born but not through the availability of free contraceptives. The argument has been made before, they're cheap, they can buy their own. Just because it's available doesn't mean they'll be used either. The second part is to tighten up on who's eligible for those programs. I don't think it's better to provide low/no cost healthcare, I think it would be better to hold the people who claim they need that stuff accountable for their actions. It is IRRESPONSIBLE to bring a baby into poverty. If you can't afford one, don't have one. Use your brain before going crazy. We need to get people off dependency, not reinforce it. Accidents as a result of not using protection is no excuse. If a condom breaks, well that sucks but at least they tried. People that simply forgo protection who get pregnant deserve what they get. It's unfortunate, but people need a kick in the ass to get them moving again, not a warm cup of milk and a pat on the wrist saying "don't do that again okay sweetie".
    To the bolded first. Did you read the link? Free birth control was used by those participating in the study and the results were greater than anticipated. Especially since they offered longer term contraceptives like the implant and IUD's.

    As to the rest, one can click their heels and just continue insisting people take responsibility without doing anything or one can take action and change the outcome. This study, helped the women take responsibility, that's what using contraception is, and the outcome was changed. Just wishing it so, isn't going to cut it.

    They get what they deserve, a kick in the butt? You are speaking of a child, not some mundane punishment. And that punishment costs you and the country $11 billion a year, but that is nothing compared to a life of poverty, and more than likely abuse and neglect.

  2. #182
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    Yes, you have no idea. Many women aren't in a situation where they canít say no and keep out of serious trouble. One form of serious trouble is being kicked out on the street and there are many more. Again, many women are simply in a position where they can't safely say 'NO!" But, you could say it's their fault for getting in such a situation. It's always the woman's fault. Some theocracies have a solution for that, are you suggesting it too?
    How can a woman not say no to sex? That is a very easy thing to do. If they're raped then that's another topic, but there's no reason someone can't say no to having sex.
    "Only the dead have seen the end of war..." -Plato

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  3. #183
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krystov View Post
    There are a few parts to this. No, I don't want more moochers being born but not through the availability of free contraceptives. The argument has been made before, they're cheap, they can buy their own. Just because it's available doesn't mean they'll be used either. The second part is to tighten up on who's eligible for those programs. I don't think it's better to provide low/no cost healthcare, I think it would be better to hold the people who claim they need that stuff accountable for their actions. It is IRRESPONSIBLE to bring a baby into poverty. If you can't afford one, don't have one. Use your brain before going crazy. We need to get people off dependency, not reinforce it. Accidents as a result of not using protection is no excuse. If a condom breaks, well that sucks but at least they tried. People that simply forgo protection who get pregnant deserve what they get. It's unfortunate, but people need a kick in the ass to get them moving again, not a warm cup of milk and a pat on the wrist saying "don't do that again okay sweetie".
    It's irresponsible to be fat, eat too much sugar, not get enough exorcise, etc. I want those people to pay their fair share for their health insurance, but insurance companies are doing that. Damn.
    If you are a woman in a typical situation is it easier, in your opinion, to not have sex or to not be fat?

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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    To the bolded first. Did you read the link? Free birth control was used by those participating in the study and the results were greater than anticipated. Especially since they offered longer term contraceptives like the implant and IUD's.

    As to the rest, one can click their heels and just continue insisting people take responsibility without doing anything or one can take action and change the outcome. This study, helped the women take responsibility, that's what using contraception is, and the outcome was changed. Just wishing it so, isn't going to cut it.

    They get what they deserve, a kick in the butt? You are speaking of a child, not some mundane punishment. And that punishment costs you and the country $11 billion a year, but that is nothing compared to a life of poverty, and more than likely abuse and neglect.
    I think you're missing the point. This still reinforces the concept of dependency upon the government for free stuff at my expense. Why should I support someone who can't support themselves? They get what they deserve, additional burden on top of their already burdened life. Why can't anyone say "lets get these people back on their feet so they can support themselves" not "lets give them free **** so they don't have to support themselves". An INCREASE in people on social care programs suggests the latter, not the former. And people need to get off their ass and try, and this entitlement ideology encourages laziness.
    "Only the dead have seen the end of war..." -Plato

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelJR
    ...play stupid games, win stupid prizes...

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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krystov View Post
    How can a woman not say no to sex? That is a very easy thing to do. If they're raped then that's another topic, but there's no reason someone can't say no to having sex.
    You don't understand the impossible situation that many poor women find themselves in. 'No' is not an acceptable answer to many men. Especially men that are not properly making a living. How women get involved with them is another story. So you are saying that she should run away, to the streets, to avoid having sex?

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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    It's irresponsible to be fat, eat too much sugar, not get enough exorcise, etc. I want those people to pay their fair share for their health insurance, but insurance companies are doing that. Damn.
    If you are a woman in a typical situation is it easier, in your opinion, to not have sex or to not be fat?
    This is irrelevant. Those people pay for their own insurance. You don't contribute in any way to their healthcare premiums, co-pays, or deductibles. If we're talking about Obamacare, I would agree with you.

    My opinion is if you're going to have sex, be prepared for the consequences. It's no one else's responsibility to pay for their mistake, nor is it anyone else's responsibility to prevent their mistake.
    "Only the dead have seen the end of war..." -Plato

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelJR
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    You don't understand the impossible situation that many poor women find themselves in. 'No' is not an acceptable answer to many men. Especially men that are not properly making a living. How women get involved with them is another story. So you are saying that she should run away, to the streets, to avoid having sex?
    If it is an abusive relationship there are other means of dealing with it than running to the streets. You can say no regardless of your circumstance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelJR
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krystov View Post
    How can a woman not say no to sex? That is a very easy thing to do. If they're raped then that's another topic, but there's no reason someone can't say no to having sex.
    Sorry, I missed reading this post. Essentially they are raped since they have no other safe solution.
    You are judging someone's options from situations you are used to, nice good ones. Not ones where the woman has limited or no good choices and needs a man to protect her from other men.
    You don't understand how common rape, that will not be prosequted, is. And if there is an arrest and no conviction who will really pay the price?

  9. #189
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    If it is the government paying for the contraceptives, what if the government decides that it wants the manner of contraceptives to be sterilization?
    I guess I looked at the question as one of freedom. The original question is "Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?" The country could be China. A country that does pay for contraception, not always in the form the recipient would want.

    Far fetched? In the US, probably yes for the foreseeable future, but who knows? If the country stays out of it, then presumably it would be harder for the country to "get into it."

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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krystov View Post
    I think you're missing the point. This still reinforces the concept of dependency upon the government for free stuff at my expense. Why should I support someone who can't support themselves? They get what they deserve, additional burden on top of their already burdened life. Why can't anyone say "lets get these people back on their feet so they can support themselves" not "lets give them free **** so they don't have to support themselves". An INCREASE in people on social care programs suggests the latter, not the former. And people need to get off their ass and try, and this entitlement ideology encourages laziness.
    I think you are missing the bigger point, maybe a few of them.

    One can be on their high horse, decrying those on assistance as living off their tax dollar and nothing changes. Or one could insist one's tax dollar be used more effectively to keep from increasing the number of people on social welfare programs by helping them take responsibility for their contraception.

    The $11 billion a year is already spent at your expense. Why don't we put the horse back ahead of the cart and work to lower that number, not with self-satisfying "they get what they deserve", because it's been shown that is not an effective way to solve the problem. They are getting what they deserve, at your expense. Start by reducing the number of unplanned pregnancies, with contraception. Stop increasing the number of children born into certain poverty because once they are born, their mothers will struggle even more to support them. A good way to get people on their feet is not to burden them in the first place because people feel they'd rather pay after the fact and complain about it.

    I don't know and won't guess the means you would employ to get people back on their feet instead of giving them free stuff. I agree, let's get them back on their feet with training programs and assistance with finding jobs. Real assistance because there is darn little of that right now.

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