View Poll Results: Should the country (taxes) pay for women's contraception?

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    45 38.46%
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    72 61.54%
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Thread: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

  1. #161
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krystov View Post
    But how many things are we going to say "we might as well pay for that too" to? The idea is to get people off government dependency, not reinforce the idea that there is a safety net for everyone.
    I do see your point and I actually feel the same way. But I would rather pay for someone's contraceptive versus their oreo cookies or their cell phones but I guess the initial question didn't allow me that luxury of choosing. It is actually a confusing question because it is tempting to say "yes I would pay for it so that maybe they would have less babies that I had to pay for" and on the other hand there is the point that you make, it doesn't help anyone get away from being dependent.

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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by melons View Post
    I do see your point and I actually feel the same way. But I would rather pay for someone's contraceptive versus their oreo cookies or their cell phones but I guess the initial question didn't allow me that luxury of choosing. It is actually a confusing question because it is tempting to say "yes I would pay for it so that maybe they would have less babies that I had to pay for" and on the other hand there is the point that you make, it doesn't help anyone get away from being dependent.
    It was more than just the dependency, it was about instilling an idea of responsibility and consequences for action. I think someone feeling the fear of the possibility of having an unwanted baby is more palpable than just having the ability to get free condoms. Negative reinforcement works better in my opinion.
    "Only the dead have seen the end of war..." -Plato

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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    No, and neither should insurance, though I wouldn't prohibit them from providing it.
    "I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." -Thomas Sowell

  4. #164
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Yes and in fact if you take food stamps, WIC, welfare, section 8, it should be a requirement.
    "We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy." -Reagan

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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krystov View Post
    The idea is for people to be more responsible. Some poor people have the kids just so they can get the credits on their tax returns. I don't think they're too worried about the kid if they're doing that.
    The word "responsible" means different things to you and me. I think it means "uses contraceptives", you seem to think it means "don't have sex unless you want a kid."

    What percentage of poor people having kids do you think are having them for the tax credit? Lazy mooches exist, but I'd estimate they're in the vast minority. Crafting spitefully punitive policies around that small fraction which hobbles millions in the collateral will deprive the country of hundreds of thousands of the right-wing's acclaimed "net-taxpayers."

    Are you unwilling to countenance policy tacitly endorsing morally distasteful behavior, or is it that you disparage the economic boon we're asserting?

  6. #166
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krystov View Post
    Entitlement and lack of responsibility are two ideologies we do not need spreading any further.
    Quoted for truth. Really, this is the core of the entire controversy being discussed in this thread. “Entitlement and lack of responsibility…”
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  7. #167
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krystov View Post
    Some of those single mothers on welfare do it on purpose.
    A minuscule and therefore negligible percentage, sure.

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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by melons View Post
    I do think that we should pay for contraceptives. Although my initial reaction was, no, the more I thought about how we pay for liver treatments for people who drank to an oblivion and cancer treatment for people who smoked all they wanted and emergency care for those drink, drive and wreck themselves. It seems that at least contraceptives will prevent further addition to our communities that we have to also...pay for. If we have deemed them poor enough for us to provide all their living expenses and medical care anyway, we might as well pay for contraceptives too. If not for any other reason than our own protection against further children being born for us to take care of in society.
    Wow. Logic overcoming dogma.
    And, if I could, with an adquate process, keep an injured drunk driver out of the ER I'd consider it; but, I don't think it can be done. Too bad.

  9. #169
    Advisor Krystov's Avatar
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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChunkySalsa View Post
    The word "responsible" means different things to you and me. I think it means "uses contraceptives", you seem to think it means "don't have sex unless you want a kid."

    What percentage of poor people having kids do you think are having them for the tax credit? Lazy mooches exist, but I'd estimate they're in the vast minority. Crafting spitefully punitive policies around that small fraction which hobbles millions in the collateral will deprive the country of hundreds of thousands of the right-wing's acclaimed "net-taxpayers."

    Are you unwilling to countenance policy tacitly endorsing morally distasteful behavior, or is it that you disparage the economic boon we're asserting?
    I think it means "don't have sex unless you can afford the preventative tools, or are prepared for the consequences".

    Your argument about taxpayers is invalid. They reside within the 47% of people who don't pay taxes. As with people who mooch the system, people who make money and pay taxes who also need welfare are also in the minority. The country is only spending money on that 47%, not making any.

    It's not that I want to subject people to less than desirable circumstances, it's that I want people to take responsibility for themselves. Show them that there are real, negative consequences for irresponsibility (financially and sexually) so that they're afraid to be put in that position. This all encompassing safety net we've developed removes that fear and people stop caring if they fall into poverty. 12 million more people are on social care programs now than there were 4 years ago. We can attribute most of that to the economy, but there are those that simply say, "well I can get something for free, so why not?".
    "Only the dead have seen the end of war..." -Plato

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    Re: Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krystov View Post
    But how many things are we going to say "we might as well pay for that too" to? The idea is to get people off government dependency, not reinforce the idea that there is a safety net for everyone.
    So we're alligned in "The idea is to get people off government dependency". Women often have no effective choice when it comes to coitus; especially the ones on the dole. So if pregnant or with a baby what are their chances of getting off the dole? Be logical, not dogmatic.

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