View Poll Results: Would you support male contraceptives?

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  • Yes, I would support male contraceptives?

    28 90.32%
  • No, I wouldn't support male contraceptives?

    3 9.68%
  • I don't know.

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Thread: Would you support a male contraceptive?

  1. #81
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    Re: Would you support a male contraceptive?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Maybe not, but it certainly affects his well-being and future if he is forced to pay for her decision, or some other form of compensation.

    She gets to do whatever she wants with her body. No one is proposing to limit what she can do with her body. All we're saying is that she shouldn't get to do whatever she wants with a man's life.
    They jointly decided to have sex knowing the possibilities - aren't they then both deciding what to do with each other's lives? What if one has an STD that they just don't know about - same thing.

    I don't look at abortion as a viable option to encourage or push. By default - I expect everyone to carry . . . it's an extra divergent path if she has an abortion. So he's tied to the default - not the divergent path. Anything else will encourage and favor abortion and that is exactly what we don't need in this country - though I support abortion being available and legal - I don't believe it should become any more of a choice that's taken than it is already.

    Either way - her life can be permanently altered. Whether she has an abortion, gives a child up for adoption, or they have a relationship - whatever the case . . . pregnancy is risky business and regardless of the parenting status in the end - it can have extreme life altering results.

    Now - this view of mine would be quite different if our government gave 100% adequate care to child and/or mother to where they wouldn't *need* his support to stay out of a homeless shelter. Then - maybe I'd have a different view because a child wouldn't be without purely for a lack of having a decent parent in their life.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 10-15-12 at 01:36 AM.
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  2. #82
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    Re: Would you support a male contraceptive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    They jointly decided to have sex knowing the possibilities - aren't they then both deciding what to do with each other's lives?

    I don't look at abortion as a viable option to encourage or push. By default - I expect everyone to carry . . . it's an extra divergent path if she has an abortion. So he's tied to the default - not the divergent path.

    Anything else will encourage and favor abortion and that is exactly what we don't need in this country - though I support abortion being available and legal - I don't believe it should become any more of a choice that's taken than it is already.

    Either way - her life can be permanently altered. Whether she has an abortion, gives a child up for adoption, or they have a relationship - whatever the case . . . pregnancy is risky business and regardless of the parenting status in the end - it can have extreme life altering results.
    Not when the woman can unilaterally decide to abort or have a child. In that case, she is deciding for her own life. The man should be able to do the same, by deciding whether he wants to be involved with whatever she's decided.

    He is not tied to the "default," as you put it (I disagree with that notion -- aborting is no less natural than not historically, and why would it be for such a mind-driven species?).

    I don't care what it encourages or not. I am concerned with people's freedom to decide how to run their own lives. Women have that freedom, and men do not.

    And furthermore, I disagree with you. Men have less reason to push for abortion if they know they won't be handcuffed for the rest of their lives if she gives birth. Adoption is still a completely viable option as well. Resources exist to help women with unplanned pregnancies if they want to have and keep a child as well, and it's not like men actually stick around if they really, really don't want to. So all I'm proposing is to stop treating them like criminals for daring to want their own lives when the woman has decided her own.

    I believe everything should be as much of a choice as humanly possible. I don't believe in trying to dampen women's perception of what their choices are.

    Women still get to choose. They just don't get to punish someone else for their decision. Disagreeing with that is insulting to men as equally free agents. It's also insulting to women. It implies they're too dumb to work out the mechanics of their own decisions. It insults men again by implying none of them would ever support a woman unless they were forced to do so, as though they're feral dogs.

    None of those things are true, and I don't take kindly to being insulted in such a way, nor do men.

  3. #83
    Educator / Liar Champion ab9924's Avatar
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    Re: Would you support a male contraceptive?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Not when the woman can unilaterally decide to abort or have a child. In that case, she is deciding for her own life. The man should be able to do the same, by deciding whether he wants to be involved with whatever she's decided.

    He is not tied to the "default," as you put it (I disagree with that notion -- aborting is no less natural than not historically, and why would it be for such a mind-driven species?).

    I don't care what it encourages or not. I am concerned with people's freedom to decide how to run their own lives. Women have that freedom, and men do not.

    And furthermore, I disagree with you. Men have less reason to push for abortion if they know they won't be handcuffed for the rest of their lives if she gives birth. Adoption is still a completely viable option as well. Resources exist to help women with unplanned pregnancies if they want to have and keep a child as well, and it's not like men actually stick around if they really, really don't want to. So all I'm proposing is to stop treating them like criminals for daring to want their own lives when the woman has decided her own.

    I believe everything should be as much of a choice as humanly possible. I don't believe in trying to dampen women's perception of what their choices are.

    Women still get to choose. They just don't get to punish someone else for their decision. Disagreeing with that is insulting to men as equally free agents. It's also insulting to women. It implies they're too dumb to work out the mechanics of their own decisions. It insults men again by implying none of them would ever support a woman unless they were forced to do so, as though they're feral dogs.

    None of those things are true, and I don't take kindly to being insulted in such a way, nor do men.
    You are so absolutely right. Too bad, feminism has already created an entire industry that runs on the current legal status of men. That will not go away. ... Unless we get a technological help.

    Women are far less vested in social situations than men. I thought this was because of feminism+technology, but maybe it is not. The key for the improvement is then to free men from having to vest themselves in the social world, at least to the level where it is not more than women. I'm afraid that such a technology must start with developing a reliable hormon control for men.

  4. #84
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    Re: Would you support a male contraceptive?

    Quote Originally Posted by ab9924 View Post
    You are so absolutely right. Too bad, feminism has already created an entire industry that runs on the current legal status of men. That will not go away. ... Unless we get a technological help.

    Women are far less vested in social situations than men. I thought this was because of feminism+technology, but maybe it is not. The key for the improvement is then to free men from having to vest themselves in the social world, at least to the level where it is not more than women. I'm afraid that such a technology must start with developing a reliable hormon control for men.
    Dude, what is with your conspiratorial spewage about feminism?

    First of all, I'm a feminist and I'm not alone in my position.

    Second of all, laws that force men to pay for women's decisions are not the resut of feminism. In fact, they pre-date feminism. They are actually a result of the patriarchy, and the belief that women are incapable of supporting themselves.

    As for your rant about social involvement/technology/feminism, I don't even know what the hell you're on about.

  5. #85
    Educator / Liar Champion ab9924's Avatar
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    Re: Would you support a male contraceptive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    They jointly decided to have sex knowing the possibilities - aren't they then both deciding what to do with each other's lives? What if one has an STD that they just don't know about - same thing.
    But this is exactly the problem. They never decide anything jointly. You ignore the basic biological dynamic of human life.

    It is an empty propaganda that it takes 2 to tango, isn't it? Maybe I can illustrate this by mentioning that every little girl has thoughts of how many children they would have when grown up ... this is the motherly instinct. On the other hand, little boys don't think of girls until they grow up. Then, when all grown, the girls simply dig until they get their instinctually required pregnancy. So, whilst there is 2 of them in the bedroom, statistically there is only 1 of them there, the woman ALONE gets pregnant. This is important I think, because laws are written from statistics, not individualistics. So, how is it fair to make a man pay for a woman's decisions, statistically? Don't men need a technological help then that gets their interest in women under their individual control, before they get burnt for it statistically (summarily)?

  6. #86
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    Re: Would you support a male contraceptive?

    Quote Originally Posted by ab9924 View Post
    But this is exactly the problem. They never decide anything jointly. You ignore the basic biological dynamic of human life.

    It is an empty propaganda that it takes 2 to tango, isn't it? Maybe I can illustrate this by mentioning that every little girl has thoughts of how many children they would have when grown up ... this is the motherly instinct. On the other hand, little boys don't think of girls until they grow up. Then, when all grown, the girls simply dig until they get their instinctually required pregnancy. So, whilst there is 2 of them in the bedroom, statistically there is only 1 of them there, the woman ALONE gets pregnant. This is important I think, because laws are written from statistics, not individualistics. So, how is it fair to make a man pay for a woman's decisions, statistically? Don't men need a technological help then that gets their interest in women under their individual control, before they get burnt for it statistically (summarily)?
    That is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. No wonder you have problems falling asleep at night! Little boys think about sex LONG before they are grown up, as do girls. Also, there are MANY women who do NOT want to have children. This is so misogynist, almost to the point of a conspiracy theory that all women are just trapping men to get pregnant and have their "quota" of babies. Intensive psychotherapy could be in order here.

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    Re: Would you support a male contraceptive?

    Oh yeah, I do support male contraception! It's a great idea for men to have more choices than just condoms for BC!

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    Re: Would you support a male contraceptive?

    Quote Originally Posted by ab9924 View Post
    But this is exactly the problem. They never decide anything jointly. You ignore the basic biological dynamic of human life.

    It is an empty propaganda that it takes 2 to tango, isn't it? Maybe I can illustrate this by mentioning that every little girl has thoughts of how many children they would have when grown up ... this is the motherly instinct. On the other hand, little boys don't think of girls until they grow up. Then, when all grown, the girls simply dig until they get their instinctually required pregnancy. So, whilst there is 2 of them in the bedroom, statistically there is only 1 of them there, the woman ALONE gets pregnant. This is important I think, because laws are written from statistics, not individualistics. So, how is it fair to make a man pay for a woman's decisions, statistically? Don't men need a technological help then that gets their interest in women under their individual control, before they get burnt for it statistically (summarily)?
    Please, men are perfectly capable of saying no. As if men have no control over their urges.

  9. #89
    Educator / Liar Champion ab9924's Avatar
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    Re: Would you support a male contraceptive?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Dude, what is with your conspiratorial spewage about feminism?

    First of all, I'm a feminist and I'm not alone in my position.

    Second of all, laws that force men to pay for women's decisions are not the resut of feminism. In fact, they pre-date feminism. They are actually a result of the patriarchy, and the belief that women are incapable of supporting themselves.

    As for your rant about social involvement/technology/feminism, I don't even know what the hell you're on about.
    Okay, I am not a feminism expert. But don't you think that if feminism was actually interested in resolving problems with pregnancy and child raring, then they would actually address that, instead of inventing legal schemes for money, out of the individual pockets of outsiders? Feminism is a formidable power because of technology. That is probably a good thing, women need to protect their interests, like everyone else. But we men need something that lets us match that, right? And that would be a similar technological control.

    To clarify: every woman goes and goes until she gets her planned pregnancy. (Including the "unplanned" ones.) Men have no choice here. My technological proposal will allow men to choose.

  10. #90
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    Re: Would you support a male contraceptive?

    Quote Originally Posted by ab9924 View Post
    But this is exactly the problem. They never decide anything jointly. You ignore the basic biological dynamic of human life.

    It is an empty propaganda that it takes 2 to tango, isn't it? Maybe I can illustrate this by mentioning that every little girl has thoughts of how many children they would have when grown up ... this is the motherly instinct. On the other hand, little boys don't think of girls until they grow up. Then, when all grown, the girls simply dig until they get their instinctually required pregnancy. So, whilst there is 2 of them in the bedroom, statistically there is only 1 of them there, the woman ALONE gets pregnant. This is important I think, because laws are written from statistics, not individualistics. So, how is it fair to make a man pay for a woman's decisions, statistically? Don't men need a technological help then that gets their interest in women under their individual control, before they get burnt for it statistically (summarily)?
    Excuse me, but bull****.

    I'm childfree just got fixed a couple months ago. I never wanted kids. I never even played "house" as a kid, unless I got to be the kooky aunt.

    You want to know what else? 20% of women will exit their fertile years without ever having children, many of them by choice, or simply because they never felt the desire to.

    Even before reliable birth control, some women went to great lengths to avoid having children, including primitive abortions and birth control or even avoiding sex with men.

    There is no "motherly instinct" until a woman actually has children. Just social pressure. And there is a LOT of social pressure. Take it from me -- childfree women get it worse than anyone. Any time something bad happens, it's "god punishing me" for not having kids, according to my Catholic family.

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