View Poll Results: Women voting, bad idea?

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  • women voting is a terrible idea

    18 15.65%
  • women voting is fine with me

    97 84.35%
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Thread: Women voting, bad idea?

  1. #211
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    Re: Women voting, bad idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    No, it's parental kidnapping and spousal abuse.
    Sorry to hear that. Good luck.

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    Re: Women voting, bad idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    but that the entire political system in the US has gone haywire has nothing to do with women (or men for that matter). It is the problem that a political system drafted for a population of 4 million of only a relatively small part of the population was allowed to vote (white men with land or wealth in most states). The US is way too large for the electoral system it has now. That is the real reason IMHO that the US electoral system has gone nuts with money and special interests.
    I agree, this is nothing to do with women/men. The entire idea of 1 vote per citizen is flawd. But even if you don't go into such an extreme as today's voting legislations, it is still deadly. Popular representative democracy has destroyed every society that practised it, from the inside out, including the very first one in ancient Athens. Interesting though, that history has produced voting structures that are more fair and more stable, but in the usual indoctrinations of public schooling, everyone is manipulated away from the thought of those.

  3. #213
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    Re: Women voting, bad idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    3. I have realistic views about how some men are dumb, beer swilling, violent people with a cavemen attitude towards women
    4. not all men are that kind of insensitive Neanderthal men but as long as there is a view in society that what these men are doing is not so terrible they will not have to do a thing to change their attitude. There are still plenty of enablers who do not think that what these men are doing is that bad, and those enablers are both genders IMHO.
    6. women do not have to prove anything. Sure there are women with warped views of men, I met a lady once who refused to cook meals for her sons because she was not their house slave. But during my 10 years plus working at a hard rock bar (not the famous one but a regular one) I have met many men with cavemen attitudes to women. A lot of these views were about the place of women in society but even more where about where women are in their relationships and what their rights and duties to them were.
    8. of course some women are anti-men. And some have the right to be that. There are hundreds and hundreds of battered women shelters in the US because some men do not think women are anything more than punching bags. And I know, that is just a small number of men and most men would never ever raise their hands to their spouse/loved one, it still happens on a daily basis. And more than that. Doctor Phil had a show with men and women who were having problems, a lot of these problems had to do with these men having a terrible attitude towards women's rights in their marriage and the equality between men and women.
    All of this, is basically a bunch of excuses trying to justify why you, and certain other segments of society (including large numbers of women) hold bigoted, prejudiced views about men. None of it changes the fact that your original statement in this thread made a bunch of blanket, sexist statements about men in general, and presented a case for why men were less deserving of the right to vote than women. You didn't say SOME men. You didn't say "a minority of 'neanderthal men' think, behave, and vote like this blablabla...". You said "MEN think, behave, and vote like this...". So at least have the decency to admit that what you were doing was sexist stereotyping, based on a small segment of men in society who victimize women to some degree.

    This is no different than people who hold racist views about black people because they interpret a minority segment of the black population, who commit crimes, as representative of all black people.

    This is no different than people who hold bigoted views on all Muslims because they view a minority segment of Muslims, who are terrorists and fanatics, as representative of all Muslims.

    This is no different than people who make sexist statements about women because they view a minority segment of women, who use and manipulate men for money, as representative of all women.

    The fact that there are scattered men out there who are scumbags doesn't make it right for you to paint me, my father, my friends, and other men with the same brush. It is simple, fundamental sexism to do so. Just cop to it and let's move on.
    7. women might have liked my post because they too had the same idea as I had, the somewhat sarcastic view that "if" anyone has the right to loose the right to vote, why not men? And as said before, I do not want to loose their voting rights but if there has to be made a choice then why not men?
    5. my first statement was to a point sarcasm, when I said "if anyone has to loose their right to vote it is men because.....". But that does not mean that I want men to loose their right to vote or think they should loose that right. My issue with the first statement as to why women should not be allowed to vote (generalizing all women by this woman's twisted view on women in general) is that "if" anyone at all has to loose their right to vote it should not be women but that men might be much more "on the block" by past behavior to loose this right (again, I do not think they should).
    Dude. There was no IF involved in the OP. There was no "one or the other, men or women, ONE of them should not be allowed to vote" proposition presented in the OP. Again, you are the only one in this thread who made it an either/or question. You are the only one who used the OP as an excuse to go off on a separate, sexist tangent about men.

    The idiot in the OP made a bunch of simple, sexist statements about women based on stereotypes, and used those sexist views as a case (which was apparently also sarcastic) for why women shouldn't be allowed to vote. You condemn this, yes? But then you went on, out of nowhere, to do the exact same thing, only for men. To use your own words with the sexes reversed: "generalizing all men by this man's twisted view on men in general". THAT is what you did. Exactly what she did. And beyond that, you are STILL attempting to justify this twisted view on men, and you are STILL insisting that men are LESS deserving of the right to vote than women are because of your generalizations. Whether or not you actually want men to literally be banned from voting is besides the point. The OP lady wasn't serious either. The point is that she WAS serious about her stupid, bigoted reasoning for making that sarcastic suggestion, and so are you.

  4. #214
    Advisor NitroHangover's Avatar
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    Re: Women voting, bad idea?

    @ Smoke and Spiker,

    I tried searching on the website for the local radio show I heard where they were discussing that study, but I couldn't find it, and I don't remember what their source on it was. I remember the conversation because they went on and on about it for at least a good half an hour, but I admit it is possible that maybe I'm remembering the actual finding of the study slightly wrong in some way, since I can't find it.

    Anyway, there's really no way for me to argue anything you guys have said because to do so I would have to premise my arguments on something I can't back up by showing the study. Sorry I brought it up.

  5. #215
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    Re: Women voting, bad idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by NitroHangover View Post
    All of this, is basically a bunch of excuses trying to justify why you, and certain other segments of society (including large numbers of women) hold bigoted, prejudiced views about men. None of it changes the fact that your original statement in this thread made a bunch of blanket, sexist statements about men in general, and presented a case for why men were less deserving of the right to vote than women. You didn't say SOME men. You didn't say "a minority of 'neanderthal men' think, behave, and vote like this blablabla...". You said "MEN think, behave, and vote like this...". So at least have the decency to admit that what you were doing was sexist stereotyping, based on a small segment of men in society who victimize women to some degree.

    This is no different than people who hold racist views about black people because they interpret a minority segment of the black population, who commit crimes, as representative of all black people.

    This is no different than people who hold bigoted views on all Muslims because they view a minority segment of Muslims, who are terrorists and fanatics, as representative of all Muslims.

    This is no different than people who make sexist statements about women because they view a minority segment of women, who use and manipulate men for money, as representative of all women.

    The fact that there are scattered men out there who are scumbags doesn't make it right for you to paint me, my father, my friends, and other men with the same brush. It is simple, fundamental sexism to do so. Just cop to it and let's move on.
    Sorry, but I am not sorry about anything I wrote in my first post here, I might have used a fair degree of sarcasm but in my story there was and is a hint of the truth, not about men not being able to vote but that some men are not that nice a person.

    So yes, I must be so evil for even saying that there are stupid men out there who have attitudes to women that are more fit to the dark ages and before than in our time. I am also evil for saying that some men are drunken idiots who have a tendency to use violence as a means to push their point of view home on some other man or woman.

    And I am sorry if this is going to hurt any more male fragile egos, but it is not bigoted if one tells the truth that a part of menkind (no, not a spelling error this time ) are exactly the way I described them. I would hope their numbers have reduced significantly in the past decades but these kinds of men still exist. In western democracies laws, education, womens liberalization and male growth have reduced the number of men like that to a small minority there, but in some countries they male asshole syndrome is still alive and kicking in a big way. You might find that bigoted but I do not care that you feel that way. You have your point of view I have mine.

    Also, I did not say that every man is like that. You are trying to pull a general discussion into your personal realm and I am not going to play that game with you, sorry, not going to go there. This is the world wide web and if we were not allowed to say something for fear that someone gets offended because they take it personally when there was never anything that was said to them personally, well, then we might as well stop all discussion forums because then everyone would take offense at every opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by NitroHangover View Post
    Dude. There was no IF involved in the OP. There was no "one or the other, men or women, ONE of them should not be allowed to vote" proposition presented in the OP. Again, you are the only one in this thread who made it an either/or question. You are the only one who used the OP as an excuse to go off on a separate, sexist tangent about men.

    The idiot in the OP made a bunch of simple, sexist statements about women based on stereotypes, and used those sexist views as a case (which was apparently also sarcastic) for why women shouldn't be allowed to vote. You condemn this, yes? But then you went on, out of nowhere, to do the exact same thing, only for men. To use your own words with the sexes reversed: "generalizing all men by this man's twisted view on men in general". THAT is what you did. Exactly what she did. And beyond that, you are STILL attempting to justify this twisted view on men, and you are STILL insisting that men are LESS deserving of the right to vote than women are because of your generalizations. Whether or not you actually want men to literally be banned from voting is besides the point. The OP lady wasn't serious either. The point is that she WAS serious about her stupid, bigoted reasoning for making that sarcastic suggestion, and so are you.
    I am sorry, but the OP was about a tea party stupid person who said (without sarcasm unfortunately):

    Lane: Our country might have been better off if it was still just men voting. There is nothing worse than a bunch of mean, hateful women. They are diabolical in how than can skewer a person. I do not see that in men. The whole time I worked, I'd much rather have a male boss than a female boss. Double-minded, you never can trust them.

    Because women have the right to vote, I am active, because I want to make sure there is some sanity for women in the political world.
    The tea party person who said this made all kinds of generalizations as to why woman should not be allowed to vote and I, equally generalizing, wrote sarcastically that if truth be told menkind have deserved loosing that right more than womenkind. You keep on complaining that I did this out of the blue, but guess what, this is a discussion forum and people post their opinions, and that is exactly what I did. You might find that out of nowhere but when the discussion is how people feel about excluding women from voting because they of who they are as women then it is IMHO perfectly natural to wonder what makes men so special that we should be allowed to vote and women are not. Men are not better than women, that was my point.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

  6. #216
    Advisor NitroHangover's Avatar
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    Re: Women voting, bad idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    So yes, I must be so evil for even saying that there are stupid men out there who have attitudes to women that are more fit to the dark ages and before than in our time. I am also evil for saying that some men are drunken idiots who have a tendency to use violence as a means to push their point of view home on some other man or woman.
    No, only bigoted for translating those things into a view of men in general, when you and I both know that the vast majority of men, especially in this day and age, are not like that.
    You might find that bigoted but I do not care that you feel that way. You have your point of view I have mine.
    Congratulations then. I'm sorry that you view yourself and people like you in such a negative, bigoted way. Have fun, though.
    Also, I did not say that every man is like that.
    You did, actually. If you don't think that you did in that original statement, then why are you all of a sudden using qualifying words like "SOME men", "MANY men", "CERTAIN men", etc? You're full of ****, friend.
    I am sorry, but the OP was about a tea party stupid person who said (without sarcasm unfortunately):
    And in a subsequent post another poster showed us the FULL quote, where it was revealed that she WAS in fact being sarcastic about believing that women should literally lose the right to vote. Nevertheless, she is STILL sexist because she obviously does believe the stereotypes she used as reasoning. As do you. There is no difference between what she said and what you said.
    The tea party person who said this made all kinds of generalizations as to why woman should not be allowed to vote and I, equally generalizing, wrote sarcastically that if truth be told menkind have deserved loosing that right more than womenkind. You keep on complaining that I did this out of the blue, but guess what, this is a discussion forum and people post their opinions, and that is exactly what I did. You might find that out of nowhere but when the discussion is how people feel about excluding women from voting because they of who they are as women then it is IMHO perfectly natural to wonder what makes men so special that we should be allowed to vote and women are not. Men are not better than women, that was my point.
    No, the point you were clearly making, and plainly stated, even in THIS post, is that men are worse than women.

  7. #217
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    Re: Women voting, bad idea?

    Not reading the thread.

    But I have long maintained that the cultural problems we have today would be eliminated if women could not vote.

    Until women, as a majority, can vote based on intellect instead of emotion, we will have a dysfunctional government trying to implement a 'caring' society by legislative and executive and judicial fiat. It will never happen, because politicians are among the worst people to try and implement a 'perfect' society.

    The only way we can approach perfection in society (and never get there) is to EVOLVE towards it by the combined commons sense of the nation at large.

    Perfection can not be defined, but we will recognize it when we see it. And it will never be achieved by dramatic peals to emotional voters from mendacious politicians.

    Just my opinion - my wife and daughter and granddaughters don't like me to say it - but I still believe it and patiently explain to them why I think it.

    If you are not my wife or daughter or granddaughter, I feel no obligation to explain further.

    The greatest fault of capitalism is the unequal distribution of wealth. The greatest benefit of socialism is the equal distribution of misery. = Churchill

  8. #218
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    Re: Women voting, bad idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by NitroHangover View Post
    No, only bigoted for translating those things into a view of men in general, when you and I both know that the vast majority of men, especially in this day and age, are not like that.
    Nice way of letting out the part of my story where I say that men in our part of the world are only in a minority like the men I described, but even though they are in a minority there are still millions of them around.

    Quote Originally Posted by NitroHangover View Post
    Congratulations then. I'm sorry that you view yourself and people like you in such a negative, bigoted way. Have fun, though.
    No, my point of view about some men is not negative or bigoted but realistic. Most men in our part of the world are good decent men but a large group of men on this planet are not like that. That is not bigoted but a realistic view on menkind on our planet.

    Quote Originally Posted by NitroHangover View Post
    You did, actually. If you don't think that you did in that original statement, then why are you all of a sudden using qualifying words like "SOME men", "MANY men", "CERTAIN men", etc? You're full of ****, friend.
    My dear, never heard of exaggerating? Or sarcasm in responding to a generalizing point of view about women?

    I have explained why I wrote what and because of why I wrote it that way, and if you are not willing or unable to understand that, then so be it. Live long and prosper, friend.

    Quote Originally Posted by NitroHangover View Post
    And in a subsequent post another poster showed us the FULL quote, where it was revealed that she WAS in fact being sarcastic about believing that women should literally lose the right to vote. Nevertheless, she is STILL sexist because she obviously does believe the stereotypes she used as reasoning. As do you. There is no difference between what she said and what you said.
    Well, I have not read every post in this thread, I have other things to do (like sleep).

    Quote Originally Posted by NitroHangover View Post
    No, the point you were clearly making, and plainly stated, even in THIS post, is that men are worse than women.
    No, the point I was making is that some men are idiotic morons who drink, rape, kill and are totally disrespectful of women. Last time I checked the number of women who drink, rape, kill and totally disrespect men are in no way as high as men that do stuff like that. Now does that make menkind worse than womenkind, NO, but men are also not better than women. Which is what I said at the end of my previous post.
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  9. #219
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    Re: Women voting, bad idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rokkitsci View Post
    Not reading the thread.

    But I have long maintained that the cultural problems we have today would be eliminated if women could not vote.

    Until women, as a majority, can vote based on intellect instead of emotion, we will have a dysfunctional government trying to implement a 'caring' society by legislative and executive and judicial fiat. It will never happen, because politicians are among the worst people to try and implement a 'perfect' society.

    The only way we can approach perfection in society (and never get there) is to EVOLVE towards it by the combined commons sense of the nation at large.

    Perfection can not be defined, but we will recognize it when we see it. And it will never be achieved by dramatic peals to emotional voters from mendacious politicians.

    Just my opinion - my wife and daughter and granddaughters don't like me to say it - but I still believe it and patiently explain to them why I think it.

    If you are not my wife or daughter or granddaughter, I feel no obligation to explain further.

    There simply has to be a massive disconnect between a person and the real world when they somehow believe that men are emotionless automotons that always vote logically and intelligently.

  10. #220
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    Re: Women voting, bad idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by NitroHangover View Post
    @ Smoke and Spiker,

    I tried searching on the website for the local radio show I heard where they were discussing that study, but I couldn't find it, and I don't remember what their source on it was. I remember the conversation because they went on and on about it for at least a good half an hour, but I admit it is possible that maybe I'm remembering the actual finding of the study slightly wrong in some way, since I can't find it.

    Anyway, there's really no way for me to argue anything you guys have said because to do so I would have to premise my arguments on something I can't back up by showing the study. Sorry I brought it up.
    Well - a problem with studies and research is that the findings are only as accurate and thorough as the test method. . . because i they were *all* accurate - we just need to off ourselves because we're really ****ed up and psychotic. LOL - I've read so many different research papers and reports that directly conflict - it's stressful!

    So - just like polls - take it with a grain of salt. When it comes to doing research I tend to read the initial report - any connections they suggest (other findings, etc) - and read up on the individuals involved and learn about their method - and so on . . . it's amazing what you find that's questionable.

    I remember reading a same-sex parenting study that seemed promising but it turned out that only 1/2 of their subjects were in same-sex relationships with children and the others were not. That cut the subject pool down to maybe 20 . . . not enough to do a study with. Everyone else, I thought, needed to just be tossed out. And others had interesting - or questionable methodology. Some do personal-studies where the individual comes in and is interviewed. Others do phone interviews - and others have their surveys on websites and never meet their subjects nor can they even verify their subjects are even of said needed study-category (like single without kids, for example).

    Lengthy papers abound - and a lot are full of ****.
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