View Poll Results: Who won?

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  • Biden

    121 37.12%
  • Ryan

    205 62.88%
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Thread: Who won the VP Debate?

  1. #371
    Matthew 16:3

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    Re: Who won the VP Debate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Or CNN rather than fox, as their poll indicated something FAR different than Biden "wiping the floor" with Ryan
    The important polls I saw were of the undecideds, who seemed to lean heavily toward Biden.
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  2. #372
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    Re: Who won the VP Debate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    The important polls I saw were of the undecideds, who seemed to lean heavily toward Biden.
    I saw that too, including a Frank Luntz focus group.

    What concerned me was their lack of knowledge about any issue.

  3. #373
    Matthew 16:3

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    Re: Who won the VP Debate?

    Quote Originally Posted by CedarBear View Post
    What concerned me was their lack of knowledge about any issue.
    Isn't that the natural state of the "undecided" in an election? Think about it. These are the people who have yet to make a decision despite the fact that there is a ****LOAD of information already out there from which it should be easy to make a decision, even if that decision is to say "They are both terrible, I wash my hands of this idiocy." (Actually, people who choose that path are usually the most informed, IMO)

    That's democracy for you, though: decided by the majority, and the majority are idiots.
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  4. #374
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    Re: Who won the VP Debate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    The important polls I saw were of the undecideds, who seemed to lean heavily toward Biden.
    A couple of issues here tucker.

    First, which are "important" and which indicates a "win" are two separate things arguably. Debates aren't watched only by undecideds, nor does a debate only effect undecideds. When you have a multitude of polls with varying results regarding who won or not I think you're hard pressed to say either one "Wiped the floor" with the other.

    Not to mention, if one wishes to use such over the top rhetoric to describe what Biden did to Ryan then I would like to know what their equivalent would be for the Romney - Obama debate? This is similar to my issue with people declaring 2008 a landslide victory. When you begin to make over the top, hyperbolic proclamations to describe a situation that doesn't warrant it you essentially falsely lower the bar for such praise.

    Second, I was pointing out the error in the pathetic hyper partisan attack attempted by Disney in suggesting that the reason one would think that Biden didn't "wipe the floor" with Ryan was because you'd be watching "Faux News" and that "most of the rest of the country" agreed with him. I pointed out that such an accusation is not just idiotic, but ignorant of reality, since entities other than Fox News....such as CNN....clearly gave an indication opposite of what Disney is saying.

    Third, by looking at JUST the independents poll and actually examining the numbers there one would be very, very hard pressed to say that Biden "Wiped the floor" with Ryan. Wiping the floor gives the impression of a clear cut defeat that leaves the challenger weakened as the victor stands over top. This is simply not the case with regards to the VP debate based on the poll you're siting as a reference to Biden winning. I’ll quote a post I made concerning this, and comparing it to the Obama/Romney numbers from the same type of poll, to show you the numbers (editing a bunch of the post away, click the link if you want to read it in depth):

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Biden was +19 over Ryan. Romney was 5 points higher...+24 over Obama by the same source

    Both Biden and Ryan managed to increase opinion of them in over 33% of those in the poll. Biden at 42%, four points higher than Ryan at 38%.

    Contrast this with the Romney and Obama debate and it's a striking difference. Obama didn't even garner an improvement in opinion from 25% of those watching. He increased his standing with 13% of people compared to 56% by Romney....a 43 point difference.

    Now, on the flip side...Biden managed the same negatives as Obama (17%) where as Ryan doubled the negatives that Romney had (22% compared to 11%).

    Another interesting stat from these two polls is to see how those uncommitted people changed if they had to vote today....

    After the VP debate, Obama increased by 9% in terms of those in the sample that would vote for him. Romney gained a 5% increase. After the Presidential debate, Obama experienced only a 2% increase, and Romney had an increase of 12%.

    So looking at the three things that were measured after both debates based on this particular CBS polling of unaligned voters...

    Who Won: VP Biden by 19 - - - Pres Romney by 24
    Opinion Increase: VP 42% Biden, 38% Ryan - - - Pres 13% Obama, 56% Romney
    Opinion Decrease: VP 17% Biden, 22% Ryan - - - Pres 17% Obama, 11% Romney
    New Voters: VP 9% Obama, 5% Romney - - - Pres 2% Obama, 12% Romney

    While Obama is the person on the ticket that Republicans have attempted to paint as the "ideologue" of their pairing, Ryan has been the person Democrats have largely been pushing as the "extremist" and "ideologue" on the Republican ticket. However, after the debate Ryan saw a 10% decrease in the amount of people who believed he was "Too conservative" for them....from 48% to 38%. That's a big swing and is a positive sign for the Republicans as it hampers the Democratic message against Ryan.

    On the contrary, [Ryan] increased [in peoples opinion in their ability to be President] by 4%, hitting just under half with 49%.
    Biden won the debate. However, Ryan increased opinion regarding him by almost 40%. He increased peoples opinion of his ability to be President by 4%. He garnered 5% new voters to Romney, more than half of what Biden himself managed in that particular debate. You don’t get the “floor wiped” with you and increase the opinion of 38% of undecided viewing the instance. A four percent advantage over your opponent in terms of gaining new voters is not “wiping the floor” with them.

    My issue is in no way with the suggestion that Biden won the debate. One can clearly make the argument, easily in some cases depending on how one would like to term the method of judging a “Win”. My issue was with:

    1. Claiming Biden "cleaned Ryan's clock and left him sitting there like a school boy caught with his pants down" when multiple polls show it even, if not a Ryan victory, and even the one poll that shows a Biden victory still shows a strong and positive performance by Ryan
    2. Suggesting that the reason one would think Biden didn’t win was simply because the person watches “Faux News” and that “most of the rest of the country” felt Biden “wiped the floor” with Ryan.

  5. #375
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    Re: Who won the VP Debate?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Seems like the majority of the country disagree with you. Remember all those people who couldn't wait to see Ryan destroy Biden.....Ooops. Looks like they were dead wrong. Biden cleaned Ryan's clock and left him sitting there like a school boy caught with his pants down. Nice try trying to rehabilitate your VP pile of crap. Ryan just destroyed any chances he had of being a front running in 2016.


    204-118 in favor of RYan...How do you tap dance out of that one DD?
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  6. #376
    Matthew 16:3

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    Re: Who won the VP Debate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    My issue was with:

    1. Claiming Biden "cleaned Ryan's clock and left him sitting there like a school boy caught with his pants down" when multiple polls show it even, if not a Ryan victory, and even the one poll that shows a Biden victory still shows a strong and positive performance by Ryan
    2. Suggesting that the reason one would think Biden didn’t win was simply because the person watches “Faux News” and that “most of the rest of the country” felt Biden “wiped the floor” with Ryan.
    Fair enough.
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  7. #377
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    Re: Who won the VP Debate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    204-118 in favor of RYan...How do you tap dance out of that one DD?
    LOL.....you pick and choose your polls the same way that you pick and choose your Catholic tenements...with zero consistency. You believe what you want to believe and disregard the rest. When a poll doesn't support your view you say how biased this site it and decry all the "unaccounted for" votes. When it says what you want to it say, you tout it as if it is God's word. LOL....at least be consistent if nothing else.

    BTW Navy, did you ever get a third legitimate vote for Romney in your other poll......ROTFLMFAO!
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  8. #378
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    Re: Who won the VP Debate?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    LOL.....you pick and choose your polls the same way that you pick and choose your Catholic tenements...with zero consistency. You believe what you want to believe and disregard the rest. When a poll doesn't support your view you say how biased this site it and decry all the "unaccounted for" votes. When it says what you want to it say, you tout it as if it is God's word. LOL....at least be consistent if nothing else.

    BTW Navy, did you ever get a third legitimate vote for Romney in your other poll......ROTFLMFAO!
    Gee, that sounds like something the Liberals do ALL THE TIME.
    "Only the dead have seen the end of war..." -Plato

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