View Poll Results: Who won?

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  • Biden

    121 37.12%
  • Ryan

    205 62.88%
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Thread: Who won the VP Debate?

  1. #301
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    Re: Who won the VP Debate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krystov View Post
    Technically, every single American is dependent upon the government, otherwise we would have no military or civil structure. Should I have some responsibility to the poor? No. There is PLENTY of work out there. People are unwilling to do the work that's available. I have no problem helping the people who are helping themselves (in moderation) but until the government filters the circumstances by which people are eligible for social programs, I will not condone paying for people who take advantage of the system.
    Do you have any evidence to back up those claims? There are some heavy objectivist undertones there, so I'd prefer if you could support claims like(below) before we continue.

    There is PLENTY of work out there. People are unwilling to do the work that's available.
    Thanks!

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    Re: Who won the VP Debate?

    To copy from another thread: I just watched it today and clearly Biden commanded the debate. However it was still fairly close and both of these guys are sharp as a tac. Did anyone else have the feeling that these guys knew more about what they were talking about though than their bosses or is it just me?
    "We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy." -Reagan

  3. #303
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    Re: Who won the VP Debate?

    Quote Originally Posted by waas View Post
    You're correct about the first part. But the most key aspect is an equal playing field, making so that people can find a job no matter what situation they're born in to. Removing the ability for corporations to cause as much harm as they do(while giving the individual worker control over their own livelihood) is also important.

    And furthermore, you wouldn't be against paying a small fraction of your to keep Americans fed, now would you? And surely you're not against something like the Civilian Conservation Corps, are you? No. Because, as Americans, we don't just abandon our fellow man. That's not who we are.
    Firstly, what control over their own livilihood don't workers have? They can quit whenever they want, ask for a raise, they have complete control over whether or not they work after they're hired. Are you suggesting they get to tell their employer what they make? It doesn't work that way, and layoffs, as undesireable as they are, is business. Them having to make those decisions are directly related to the amount of spending our government does because overspending (like the last 4 years) plunges economies into the gutter. They have to make those decisions to stay afloat.

    To the second part, no I don't have any problem taking a small portion of my paycheck to help the absolutely needy. The amount of people on welfare has increased by 12 million over the last 4 years and even before then I had a firm belief that too many people were taking advantage of those programs. That means even more federal spending that has to be budgeted. Now, as I said I don't have a problem helping out those in need, but I do if they're in need because they're not doing anything to help themselves. Until the government figures out a better way to filter out the "true takers", I won't support any social programs of the like. Bottom line, the people who are leaching off of the system without contributing something back or trying to improve their lives, in my eyes, can rot. If they're not trying, it's their own fault they "need" anything at all. I believe they should take responsibility for those choices.
    "Only the dead have seen the end of war..." -Plato

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelJR
    ...play stupid games, win stupid prizes...

  4. #304
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    Re: Who won the VP Debate?

    Quote Originally Posted by waas View Post
    Do you have any evidence to back up those claims? There are some heavy objectivist undertones there, so I'd prefer if you could support claims like(below) before we continue.



    Thanks!
    Pick up a newspaper and look in the classifieds. The very presence of job postings proves that people aren't willing to work. Many of them are jobs that people think are below them.
    Last edited by Krystov; 10-13-12 at 01:33 AM.
    "Only the dead have seen the end of war..." -Plato

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelJR
    ...play stupid games, win stupid prizes...

  5. #305
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    Re: Who won the VP Debate?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnWOlin View Post
    To copy from another thread: I just watched it today and clearly Biden commanded the debate. However it was still fairly close and both of these guys are sharp as a tac. Did anyone else have the feeling that these guys knew more about what they were talking about though than their bosses or is it just me?
    Ryan said just about all of the same things that Romney did. They were very consistent because they actually have a plan and they both understand it. Biden on the other hand greatly outdid his boss. That said, there were many falsehoods in his statements.
    "Only the dead have seen the end of war..." -Plato

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelJR
    ...play stupid games, win stupid prizes...

  6. #306
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    Re: Who won the VP Debate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post

    Biden won this one clearly on facts, leadership and confidence.
    I'm sorry,but he did not win on "facts"....He was lying through his dentures on quite a few things....

    One of the biggest lies was claiming he voted against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan

    U.S. Senate: Legislation & Records Home > Votes > Roll Call Vote Summary - 107th Congress, 1st Session

    U.S. Senate: Legislation & Records Home > Votes > Roll Call Vote

    Saying that the Administration did not know that the Embassy in Libya requested more security when in fact several requests were made and turned down.

    Biden contradicts State Department on Benghazi security | The Cable

    Lamb to the slaughter | The Cable

    Lied about the $300 million dollar cut to embassy security that was never proposed and never implemented because the Ryan budget was NEVER enacted.


    Lied about not wanting to keep troops in Iraq past the withdrawal deadline that President Bush signed.

    Status of Forces Agreement News - Breaking World Status of Forces Agreement News - The New York Times

    Lied about not wanting to tax people earning under $1 million....President Obama has been campaigning on raising taxes on those earning $250k and more.

    Was totally wrong about Syria being 5 times as large as Libya.....Libya 1.76 million square kilometers........Syria 185,180 square kilometers.

    Lied about pulling all troops out of Afghanistan in 2014.

    US troops may stay in Afghanistan until 2024 - Telegraph



    Biden was not only calm and stayed on facts ... he was badass!
    Badass?I think not....He was mearly an ass.
    "The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without."

    ~Dwight D. Eisenhower

  7. #307
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    Re: Who won the VP Debate?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnWOlin View Post
    To copy from another thread: I just watched it today and clearly Biden commanded the debate. However it was still fairly close and both of these guys are sharp as a tac. Did anyone else have the feeling that these guys knew more about what they were talking about though than their bosses or is it just me?
    I agree,Biden did command the debate...But not in a positive way.
    "The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without."

    ~Dwight D. Eisenhower

  8. #308
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    Re: Who won the VP Debate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Strucky View Post
    I agree,Biden did command the debate...But not in a positive way.
    Let's look at it this way; Romney smashed Obama with a far different tone than he has had for at least a year; Ryan tried the same thing and Biden cut right through that bull**** like a hot knife on butter. Hopefully chiclet mouth gives ole big ears some pointers on how to act like a boss and make sure people know you're the boss.
    "We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy." -Reagan

  9. #309
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    Re: Who won the VP Debate?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnWOlin View Post
    Let's look at it this way; Romney smashed Obama with a far different tone than he has had for at least a year; Ryan tried the same thing and Biden cut right through that bull**** like a hot knife on butter. Hopefully chiclet mouth gives ole big ears some pointers on how to act like a boss and make sure people know you're the boss.
    I'm sorry,but I don't think Biden cut through anything...All he did was get his response on Libya in the news cycle.
    "The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without."

    ~Dwight D. Eisenhower

  10. #310
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    Re: Who won the VP Debate?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnWOlin View Post
    Let's look at it this way; Romney smashed Obama with a far different tone than he has had for at least a year; Ryan tried the same thing and Biden cut right through that bull**** like a hot knife on butter. Hopefully chiclet mouth gives ole big ears some pointers on how to act like a boss and make sure people know you're the boss.
    I hope so too. Romney will surely be elected then. Biden spewed lies and inaccuracies throughout the entire debate. Another poster provided sources.
    "Only the dead have seen the end of war..." -Plato

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelJR
    ...play stupid games, win stupid prizes...

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