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Stem Cell Research: For or Against?

Are you for or against stem cell research?

  • For

    Votes: 56 94.9%

  • Against

    Votes: 3 5.1%
  • Total voters
    59
Fiddytree said:
True, those with Aspergers are different (and each person with that label is different from another) from those with other disabilities in the spectrum, however, I have to still suggest that the kids I know who do have what the medical community considers a more serious condition of autism are also happy with themselves and their lives. I grew up with some of them, and others I came to know through a conference we sponsor every year and play games with them. Some of them have specifically relayed in one way or another that they like themselves, being different along with being the same as the other kids. In fact, I am thinking right now of a little boy and his shy smile, and a cute little girl that loved to give me high fives.

I claim no knowledge over cystic fibrosis, but I will say that we have to tread carefully down this path.
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I have a little brother who is autistic and I'm a dwarf.

But, I understand that this doesn't necessarily give me more of an opinion than someone else.

As for me. Honestly, if had the chance to change who I was, I most definitely wouldn't.
 
zstep18 said:
I have a little brother who is autistic and I'm a dwarf.

But, I understand that this doesn't necessarily give me more of an opinion than someone else.

As for me. Honestly, if had the chance to change who I was, I most definitely wouldn't.
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And I certainly understand the limitations to my perspective. There are many parents that would be just as quick to remind me that I am on the other side of the fence on the spectrum, or in the case of another disability, that the daily toil has taken its toll on all, including the person with the disability. Nevertheless, I have also read enough to know that others with conditions that I thought were too incredible to bear have been just as quick to suggest that their lives are worth something, just as much as any other man.

I too wouldn't change myself. It probably took a bit of time to reach that point, but I am able to join your ranks.
 
Fiddytree said:
And I certainly understand the limitations to my perspective. There are many parents that would be just as quick to remind me that I am on the other side of the fence on the spectrum, or in the case of another disability, that the daily toil has taken its toll on all, including the person with the disability. Nevertheless, I have also read enough to know that others with conditions that I thought were too incredible to bear have been just as quick to suggest that their lives are worth something, just as much as any other man.

I too wouldn't change myself. It probably took a bit of time to reach that point, but I am able to join your ranks.
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With regards to what I said, I definitely understand where you're coming from, especially with regards to autism.
 
zstep18 said:
Plenty of disability categories where it is a grave insult to promote the cure? What to do you mean?
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Seriously, there are plenty where just trying to fix the problem will be met with cries of "I love my special (fill in the blank)". You ought to have seen some of it yourself, being a dwarf, certainly if you go to any forums dealing in dwarf children, you get tons of parents who would smack you with a bat if you suggested wiping out dwarfism.
 
Cephus said:
Yes, really.

Entirely fine with me. A child has no control over the reproductive rights of their mother. What idiot would think otherwise?

Damn straight.
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You are a very special case in my book.
 
Cephus said:
Seriously, there are plenty where just trying to fix the problem will be met with cries of "I love my special (fill in the blank)". You ought to have seen some of it yourself, being a dwarf, certainly if you go to any forums dealing in dwarf children, you get tons of parents who would smack you with a bat if you suggested wiping out dwarfism.
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It all depends how you go about "wiping out dwarfism" or whatever problem you're speaking of. If that means like a dwarfism vaccine given to all pregnant mothers, not a problem in my eyes. I only see it as a problem when it becomes a "abort all dwarf babies" type thing. That is already being done with down's syndrome. I read somewhere that over 80% of parents that are notified that their fetus will have down's syndrome end up aborting it. I wonder just how accurate these types of tests are to begin with.
 
Rainman05 said:
You are a very special case in my book.
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No, you simply reject anyone who falls outside of your narrow worldview, as if anyone who disagrees with you has to be wrong. You never consider the possibility that *YOU* are wrong, which, based on the poll, assuming you are one of the "no" votes, you certainly are.
 
Cephus said:
No, you simply reject anyone who falls outside of your narrow worldview, as if anyone who disagrees with you has to be wrong. You never consider the possibility that *YOU* are wrong, which, based on the poll, assuming you are one of the "no" votes, you certainly are.
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I actually voted "for" because I specified my stance. You however seem to be a fanatic... a stem cell activist fanatic.

Do you have any siblings? If yes, how would feel if you hadn't had them? If not... make an effort of imagination.

I have a brother. I think my life would be a lot emptier if I had been a single child. So that is why I do not support stem cell from anything, only in certain cases, which again, I have specified -> Nobel prize laureats in medicine discovered a way to reverse engineer mature cells into becoming stem cells.
 
Voltaire X said:
It all depends how you go about "wiping out dwarfism" or whatever problem you're speaking of. If that means like a dwarfism vaccine given to all pregnant mothers, not a problem in my eyes. I only see it as a problem when it becomes a "abort all dwarf babies" type thing. That is already being done with down's syndrome. I read somewhere that over 80% of parents that are notified that their fetus will have down's syndrome end up aborting it. I wonder just how accurate these types of tests are to begin with.
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Dwarfism doesn't work that way, achondroplasic dwarfism is a genetic mutation during pregnancy, it's not something that can be tested for in the parents (assuming neither parent is a dwarf). It's not something that you can fix with a vaccine. It's probably conceivable to fix with a retrovirus, but only if caught very early in utero and it's not something that is easily detectable, sometimes not even for quite some time after birth.

However, what I was talking about was a lot of parents of dwarf children are so fascinated with the fact that their children are unique, they act like dwarfism is fantastic and they'd advocate it to anyone. I think a lot of it is the emotional attachment they have to their children and as such, they cannot imagine their children being any different than they are and thus, they convince themselves that dwarfism is preferable to non-dwarfism. It's really not a rational way of viewing the world.
 
Rainman05 said:
I actually voted "for" because I specified my stance. You however seem to be a fanatic... a stem cell activist fanatic.
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Not a fanatic at all. A rationalist.

Do you have any siblings? If yes, how would feel if you hadn't had them? If not... make an effort of imagination.
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If I had never had my siblings, I wouldn't miss them because I never would have had them. Or did you not think of that? :roll:

I have a brother. I think my life would be a lot emptier if I had been a single child. So that is why I do not support stem cell from anything, only in certain cases, which again, I have specified -> Nobel prize laureats in medicine discovered a way to reverse engineer mature cells into becoming stem cells.
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Which, of course, has nothing whatsoever to do with stem cell research. I really find it funny for people who are so absurdly ignorant of the subject matter who go on and on about how it works when it's clear they're clueless.
 
Cephus said:
Not a fanatic at all. A rationalist.

If I had never had my siblings, I wouldn't miss them because I never would have had them. Or did you not think of that? :roll:

Which, of course, has nothing whatsoever to do with stem cell research. I really find it funny for people who are so absurdly ignorant of the subject matter who go on and on about how it works when it's clear they're clueless.
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You have no imagination. I assume calling yourself a rationalist is the only other place to go to.

So being able to turn mature, post-natal cells into embryonic pre-natal stem cells that can then be studied... thus eliminating the need to kill 10day old fetuses when you harvest them for their stem cells... has nothing to do with stem cell research.

Rationalism.
 
zstep18 said:
This is a hypothetical. Let's say that stem cell research did not involve the use of embryos but involved something else which had the same potential and success as embryonic stem cell research. There would no embryos or human life destroyed in the use of stem cell research.

Would you support or oppose stem cell research?
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This is essentially not a hypothetical. Embryonic stem cell research is not necessary.

There are no legal / moral issues with doing experimentation on donated adult cells. So one has little basis to oppose its legality.

The concern - which this averts - comes from taking the cells of those who do not and cannot give consent, or worse, creating human beings just for scientific experimentation.
 
zstep18 said:
This is a hypothetical. Let's say that stem cell research did not involve the use of embryos but involved something else which had the same potential and success as embryonic stem cell research. There would no embryos or human life destroyed in the use of stem cell research.

Would you support or oppose stem cell research?
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I support it 100%. The goal of science is to improve our lives and reduce human suffering. I can think of no better field for that than this.

I wonder if the 2 people who voted against it would change their minds if they were paralyzed from the neck down, as stem cell research has shown promising potential to reverse such injuries.
 
Rainman05 said:
You have no imagination. I assume calling yourself a rationalist is the only other place to go to.

So being able to turn mature, post-natal cells into embryonic pre-natal stem cells that can then be studied... thus eliminating the need to kill 10day old fetuses when you harvest them for their stem cells... has nothing to do with stem cell research.

Rationalism.
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As I said, I don't care where you get the cells, I'm not a whining emotional nitwit, crying "think of the fetuses!" If you can get them from post-natal cells, go for it. If you want to harvest them from aborted fetuses, go for it. The research is important, certainly more important than a bunch of religious anti-abortionist crybabies.
 
Not only am I "For" this, I think we should be spending A LOT LESS on maintenance level care via Medicaid and Medicare, and instead be investing A LOT MORE in R&D on promising things like this. I mean in principle the private markets would handle it all the way around, but compared to what we're doing I think this is a lot better use of our money because we stand to make major advances, whereas these entitlement programs are just a drain. We don't need to be guaranteeing minimal health and living standards and wasting money on cost-expansionary entitlements, but it makes good sense (comparatively) to
 
How about one side be honest?

No one is aborting babies to get stem cells. Furthermore, aborted fetuses are sent for non-stem cell research to universities and labs all of the time. When do we here the GOP complain about that? The rest of the remains are burned. Second, embyros in IVF are also sent for research or burned. The number actually frozen is low, and those with genetic defects are NEVER saved.

I personally value my family more then a .few cells smaller then the head of a pin. If I gotta sacrifice dozens, if not thousands of embryos no bigger then the head of a pin to save my family, I'm doing it. You are lying if you disagree or you just hate your family.
 
Cephus said:
Dwarfism doesn't work that way, achondroplasic dwarfism is a genetic mutation during pregnancy, it's not something that can be tested for in the parents (assuming neither parent is a dwarf). It's not something that you can fix with a vaccine. It's probably conceivable to fix with a retrovirus, but only if caught very early in utero and it's not something that is easily detectable, sometimes not even for quite some time after birth.

However, what I was talking about was a lot of parents of dwarf children are so fascinated with the fact that their children are unique, they act like dwarfism is fantastic and they'd advocate it to anyone. I think a lot of it is the emotional attachment they have to their children and as such, they cannot imagine their children being any different than they are and thus, they convince themselves that dwarfism is preferable to non-dwarfism. It's really not a rational way of viewing the world.
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You seem to have the preoccupation with the parents whereas that's only a portion of the story. A culture develops not just from family members being supportive or advocates, it becomes accepted and supported reality for those who actually live their lives as the other. What I have just read is that you have such an attachment to your existence that you cannot imagine how they would be just fine or love the fact that they are who they are.
 
Fiddytree said:
You seem to have the preoccupation with the parents whereas that's only a portion of the story. A culture develops not just from family members being supportive or advocates, it becomes accepted and supported reality for those who actually live their lives as the other. What I have just read is that you have such an attachment to your existence that you cannot imagine how they would be just fine or love the fact that they are who they are.
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I was specifically talking about online forums for parents of dwarf children. Since most of the children in question are infants at that stage, clearly I'm only talking about the reactions of the parents. But you'd know that if you read things in context, or... I don't know, just asked?
 
zstep18 said:
This is a hypothetical. Let's say that stem cell research did not involve the use of embryos but involved something else which had the same potential and success as embryonic stem cell research. There would no embryos or human life destroyed in the use of stem cell research.

Would you support or oppose stem cell research?
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I'm against anything that allows the human population to keep expanding. 7 billion is more than enough people.
 
Surtr said:
I'm against anything that allows the human population to keep expanding. 7 billion is more than enough people.
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I don't think stem cell research will have much affect on the human population lol.
 
Surtr said:
The very purpose of stem cell research is to tell nature that it's wrong, which is the height of arrogance and stupidity born of emotion.
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I think third world countries will have more of an impact on population growth than stem cell research. In many advanced countries, population growth is either stagnant or in decline.
 
Cephus said:
I was specifically talking about online forums for parents of dwarf children. Since most of the children in question are infants at that stage, clearly I'm only talking about the reactions of the parents. But you'd know that if you read things in context, or... I don't know, just asked?
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Not initially you weren't. You were responding in total with my post.

Seriously, there are plenty where just trying to fix the problem will be met with cries of "I love my special (fill in the blank)". You ought to have seen some of it yourself, being a dwarf, certainly if you go to any forums dealing in dwarf children, you get tons of parents who would smack you with a bat if you suggested wiping out dwarfism.
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You defined these matters as "problems," firstly. Secondly, you posited those seeking the cure as being completely benevolent in contradistinction to those that stand opposed. Lastly, you were being sarcastic and critical of those that do love their children for as they are.

However, what I was talking about was a lot of parents of dwarf children are so fascinated with the fact that their children are unique, they act like dwarfism is fantastic and they'd advocate it to anyone. I think a lot of it is the emotional attachment they have to their children and as such, they cannot imagine their children being any different than they are and thus, they convince themselves that dwarfism is preferable to non-dwarfism. It's really not a rational way of viewing the world.
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More sarcasm and criticism of those that do prefer their children as who they are (and also inclination of those who have a disability).

Next, in response to me, you moved immediately to parents. First, what's wrong with them accepting/loving who their children are and upset when people say it ought not exist? Second, do you honestly think the criticism you had is limited to parents? You indicted those that prefer themselves as they are on two occasions.
 
Surtr said:
The very purpose of stem cell research is to tell nature that it's wrong, which is the height of arrogance and stupidity born of emotion.
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Sometimes, nature is wrong.

Is correcting a cleft palate also the "height of arrogance and stupidity born of emotion"?
 
JayDubya said:
This is essentially not a hypothetical. Embryonic stem cell research is not necessary.

There are no legal / moral issues with doing experimentation on donated adult cells. So one has little basis to oppose its legality.

The concern - which this averts - comes from taking the cells of those who do not and cannot give consent, or worse, creating human beings just for scientific experimentation.
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The theory is that embryonic stem cells have much greater potential than adult stem cells, because embryonic stem cells are able to differentiate into any type of cell in the body where as adult stem cells do not have this ability.

There are very rigid limitations to how embryonic stem cells are obtained and used. Most of the embryonic stem cells have from "extra" embryos during in vitro fertilization. The extra embryos, which would otherwise be destroyed, are used for embryonic stem cell research.
 
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