View Poll Results: Should Christians support Obama?

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  • Yes

    25 54.35%
  • No

    21 45.65%
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Thread: Should Christians support Obama?

  1. #31
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    Re: Should Christians support Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyNinja View Post
    Christ taught the sanctity of life......ALL life. the God of the OT passed judgement on his people based on the "old Law".........Christ brought a "New Way" and a "new" doctrine.......so, your point is irrelevant, at least as it applies to "Christians"......followers during the OT were not Christians.


    So? What's Augustine to me? I am a follower of Christ, not of St. Augustine.


    i agree, but this is not how Christ intended it.
    Life outside the womb. God ordered abortions and Christ never said a thing against them.
    Alex Carey:

    ... the 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.

    Australian social scientist, quoted by Noam Chomsky in World Orders Old and New

  2. #32
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    Re: Should Christians support Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    This report says between just over 109,000 to just over 119,000 Iraq civilians .

    Iraq Body Count

    The New Your Times reported that:



    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/23/wo...asualties.html
    Can members of the "Security Forces" really be considered non-combatants? See where the ambiguity comes in?
    "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Dr. Carl Sagan

  3. #33
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    Re: Should Christians support Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyNinja View Post
    Christ taught the sanctity of life......ALL life. the God of the OT passed judgement on his people based on the "old Law".........Christ brought a "New Way" and a "new" doctrine.......so, your point is irrelevant, at least as it applies to "Christians"......followers during the OT were not Christians.
    Well, if you accept Trinity, then you should realize that Christ himself ordered the murder of fetuses. Did Christ say we can't kill and eat animals?

    So? What's Augustine to me? I am a follower of Christ, not of St. Augustine.
    Except that was was written was written by a great many people many of who claimed to have written what Christ taught them. It's partially why Christianity is so fractured. Where do you put emphasis? Who is valid? What is valid? And Augustine was key early Church figure. This is fundamental when it comes to your whole "who is a Christian" deal because you yourself are making judgements as to what is canonical and what is not. Someone who places emphasis on Augustine rather than another figure will come to a different conclusion then you. Who is to say they are wrong and you are right? Hence why I mentioned the No True Scotsman fallacy. How can you really say if they are Christians or not based on some beliefs that isn't that Christ is their savior?

    i agree, but this is not how Christ intended it.
    How do you know that? Maybe the Ba'hai are right, that there are many paths to God?

    I don't know. But I have a problem saying that this person is and this person isn't a Christian on some belief other than Christ is their Lord and Savior. Not having that to me is pretty clear sign you aren't. But everything else is debatable. I may think someone is a bad/hypocritical Christian, but that does not make them not a Christian to me. Just like a Buddhist who enjoys a steak dinner, that doesn't invalidate them as a Buddhist. Just not a particular good one.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  4. #34
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    Re: Should Christians support Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Creek View Post
    Definitive word in your information is CHRISTIAN. Born again evangelicals were created to pull for the republican party and make the rich richer by believing the bogus wedge issues.

    BTW, did you know there is NOT anti-abortion in the Christian bible nor did Christ say anything negative about gays?
    What a crock that is. I am a Catholic and there are 78,000,000 of us in this country and the Catholic Church is ardent against Abortion and SSM.......

    I guess your bible is different then mine .
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

  5. #35
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    Re: Should Christians support Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyNinja View Post
    Can members of the "Security Forces" really be considered non-combatants? See where the ambiguity comes in?
    I love his link.........The NYT one of the biggest left wing rags in the world..............
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

  6. #36
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    Re: Should Christians support Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyNinja View Post
    Perhaps you know many people who are self-proclaimed "Christians" or who simply attend/belong to churches which are founded on "Christian doctrine?" There is quite a difference between Christians and those who've simply adopted the title for convenience or for political expediency.
    There are many Christian chrches that support a woman's choice for an early abortion.

    Here is a partial list of Cristian and Jewish religions and groups that are pro choice.


    Pro-choice groups:

    Liberal and some mainline denominations: In general, these either promote a woman's right to choose an abortion, or are relatively silent on the matter. A number of liberal and mainline Christian and Jewish faith groups and organizations have publicly stated that abortions are sometimes an acceptable option, and should remain legal. According to lists prepared by The Secular Web and the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice, they include, in alphabetic order: 1

    American Baptist Churches-USA (see below),
    American Ethical Union,
    American Friends (Quaker) Service Committee,
    American Jewish Committee,
    American Jewish Congress,
    Central Conference of American Rabbis,
    Christian Church (Disciples of Christ),
    Council of Jewish Federations,
    Episcopal Church (USA),
    Federation of Reconstructionist Congregations and Havurot,
    Moravian Church in America-Northern Province,
    Na'Amat USA,
    National Council of Jewish Women,
    Presbyterian Church (USA),
    Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice,
    Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints,
    Union of American Hebrew Congregations,
    Unitarian Universalist Association,
    United Church of Christ,
    United Methodist Church,
    United Synagogue for Conservative Judaism.

    Religious groups other than denominations:

    Catholics for Free Choice,
    Episcopal Women's Caucus,
    Evangelicals for Choice,
    Jewish Women International,
    Lutheran Women's Caucus,
    North American Federation of Temple Youth,
    Unitarian Universalist Women's Federation,
    Women of Reform Judaism,
    Women's American ORT,
    Women's Caucus Church of the Brethren,
    Women's League for Conservative Judaism
    Current abortion beliefs of religious groups
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

  7. #37
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    Re: Should Christians support Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    I love his link.........The NYT one of the biggest left wing rags in the world..............
    The info was an AP report with numbers from the Pentagon. If you disagree with the numbers than take it up with the Pentagon.

    , The Associated Press reported that the Pentagon in July had quietly posted its fullest tally of the death toll of Iraqi civilians and security forces ever,
    Last edited by minnie616; 10-07-12 at 11:17 PM.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

  8. #38
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    Re: Should Christians support Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    What a crock that is. I am a Catholic and there are 78,000,000 of us in this country and the Catholic Church is ardent against Abortion and SSM.......

    I guess your bible is different then mine .

    I said God was for abortions and Jesus was never against them. How that equates to Catholic religious dogma is irrelevant. Christians follow the teachings of Christ.
    Alex Carey:

    ... the 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.

    Australian social scientist, quoted by Noam Chomsky in World Orders Old and New

  9. #39
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    Re: Should Christians support Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Well, if you accept Trinity, then you should realize that Christ himself ordered the murder of fetuses. Did Christ say we can't kill and eat animals?
    I do accept the trinity; but if you understand the nature of Christ, you also know that Christ brought a "new law" and a "new gospel."



    Except that was was written was written by a great many people many of who claimed to have written what Christ taught them. It's partially why Christianity is so fractured. Where do you put emphasis? Who is valid? What is valid? And Augustine was key early Church figure. This is fundamental when it comes to your whole "who is a Christian" deal because you yourself are making judgements as to what is canonical and what is not. Someone who places emphasis on Augustine rather than another figure will come to a different conclusion then you. Who is to say they are wrong and you are right? Hence why I mentioned the No True Scotsman fallacy. How can you really say if they are Christians or not based on some beliefs that isn't that Christ is their savior?
    My emphasis on the "Church figure"........which is why I rarely subscribe strictly to "church doctrine"............ only to Christ's doctrine. If Christ were to return today, I doubt very seriously that there is ANY "Christian" church to which he'd claim membership.

    How do you know that? Maybe the Ba'hai are right, that there are many paths to God?
    I think this may belong in another forum......let's not get too far away from the OP here.

    I may think someone is a bad/hypocritical Christian, but that does not make them not a Christian to me. .
    Christ, himself, would probably disagree here. Whether or not YOU consider them Christians is of no significance. Generally speaking, (and from strictly a NT perspective) Christ never appeard to be too fond of hypocricy among his "followers."
    "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Dr. Carl Sagan

  10. #40
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    Re: Should Christians support Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    There are many Christian chrches that support a woman's choice for an early abortion.

    Here is a partial list of Cristian and Jewish religions and groups that are pro choice.



    Current abortion beliefs of religious groups
    99.9999999........% of "churches" are nothing more than human constructs. There is only ONE church that was founded by Christ himself. True Christianity and "christian" churches are more often than not, at odds regarding how Christians should behave.
    "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Dr. Carl Sagan

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