View Poll Results: Does An American Have Freedom Of Science?

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  • No; there are limits to religious freedom when that is contradicted by science

    5 19.23%
  • Science cannot limit an American's freedom of religion

    7 26.92%
  • Sometimes. Kids should be taught whatever their parents want, but not abused.

    2 7.69%
  • I think my religion explains the world and I have no use for science

    0 0%
  • What I do in my private life is my own business, and I can raise my kids however I like

    10 38.46%
  • No opinion or undecided

    2 7.69%
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Thread: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

  1. #81
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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Why should every public HS kid be taught a survey class on comparative religion, TPD? I can think of 100 classes they need more.

    I don't want to mollycoddle the fundies one damn bit with taxpayers dollars.
    This has nothing to do with "moddycoddling the fundies." It has to do with the knowledge people must have in order to be effective students and citizens as well as critical thinkers. A nation as ignorant as it is about religion now is self-defeating. People's ignorance about Islam has caused them to support foreign policy that might decrease our national security. People's ignorance about Christianity has much of the population supporting laws based on that religion that many would not if they actually knew anything about the Bible and religion they claim allegiance to.

    Religion classes might, in some sense, seem needless, but considering that beliefs about religion significantly impact much of the countries social, political and personal views, such classes are actually quite important.

  2. #82
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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    I understand where you're coming from Pinkie, but why not? You admitted they have the right to educate their children alternatively and their tax dollars pay for everyone elese's children to have the texts that suit them.
    That is not how taxation works. Can I earmark my income tax dollars for law and order only? No?

    Then the fundies have to pay taxes to buy science textbooks that contain actual science. If they choose to keep them away from their kids, that's their right, but they don't get money from my taxes to buy "science" textbooks full of religious fairy tales.

    Fundies do not have any right to their own reality.

  3. #83
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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    My POV is that religion needs to shove over for reality AKA science in certain areas of our public life.
    Public life, FINE. However, what I teach my children if I homseschool them is NOT public life. Yet, I read and hear about parents being abused by the educational system in this state and others all the time because they are not teaching the state prescribed curriculum related to history or science, and not including enough art/music/etc.... in their curriculums.

  4. #84
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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Sólo tomé españoles en la secundaria, y no recuerdo mucho de él.
    I believe that requires translation, according to the rules. Cool it, or I'll consider binging forth the authoritah.

  5. #85
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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Evolution is not in doubt, though. THIS is where I think you and I disagree -- I don't want public school kids taught "we don't know what actually happened, but one theory is evolution".
    Ehhh, it's not completely understood either, especially where we're talking macro evolution. There are still many significant questions to say we know exactly what happened.

  6. #86
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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Ok, so you can prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, EXACTLY what happened at the beginning of time, or at least this universe, correct? You can prove, beyond a reasonable doubt that mankind evolved from another species, correct?
    We can prove it up until denying it is compltely irrational. Tigger, as far as you know, I'm just a robot that is secretely plotting to destroy the world. If you can't see me, can't hear me, could it be true?

    Until you can PROVE IT, it's a THEORY and holds no more water in my mind than the "fairy tales" and "mythology" that I put my FAITH in.
    There is a massive defference between faith and scientific theory.

    I understand you are waging an all-out war on reason and logic, but your efforts are at best, pitiful.
    "Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough."
    -FDR

  7. #87
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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    No, not at all -- and Goshin seems not to agree with me. (I'm not 100% sure what his POV is.)

    My POV is that religion needs to shove over for reality AKA science in certain areas of our public life.
    Which was exactly my point to Goshin. Your OP rests on the premise that science is not equal to religion in terms of its "truth value." Goshin's response equates religion with science, thereby missing the entire point of your OP that they aren't equal in terms of their claims about reality.

  8. #88
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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    This has nothing to do with "moddycoddling the fundies." It has to do with the knowledge people must have in order to be effective students and citizens as well as critical thinkers. A nation as ignorant as it is about religion now is self-defeating. People's ignorance about Islam has caused them to support foreign policy that might decrease our national security. People's ignorance about Christianity has much of the population supporting laws based on that religion that many would not if they actually knew anything about the Bible and religion they claim allegiance to.

    Religion classes might, in some sense, seem needless, but considering that beliefs about religion significantly impact much of the countries social, political and personal views, such classes are actually quite important.
    TPD, I'm in Cleveland. We are struggling to graduate kids who can read.

    Get back to me when my public schools have gotten off their knees.

  9. #89
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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Which was exactly my point to Goshin. Your OP rests on the premise that science is not equal to religion in terms of its "truth value." Goshin's response equates religion with science, thereby missing the entire point of your OP that they aren't equal in terms of their claims about reality.
    If that's what Goshin meant, then I agree with you.

  10. #90
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    Re: You Have No Constitutional Right To Your Own Science

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Sólo tomé españoles en la secundaria, y no recuerdo mucho de él.
    Está bien, mi español es igualmente pobre.
    "Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough."
    -FDR

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